Yeah, self-hosting it can be a bear, especially since you need to deal with the whole “bots trying to kill it will regularly post CSAM in random channels, and if any of your users are in that channel it will federate to your own server and now you have CSAM saved on your server’s cache” stuff. It’s the same problem that Lemmy was dealing with during Reddit’s APIcolypse. You can always choose not to federate, but that largely defeats the point of the protocol existing in the first place.

You also need to set up TURN servers to get functional voice/video calls. WebRTC (like voice/video calling) tends to throw a fit without some sort of TURN functionality. That’s something the average Joe won’t know how to do, and is typically going to require a paid tier from some external host like Cloudflare.

Edit: I looked it up. Cloudflare offers TURN servers, with the first 1000GB for free each month, but then it charges for use after that. But that does mean a server that gets used for video calls more than a few hours per month could end up incurring costs. Because that TURN server would be handling all of the video streaming data, so it will quickly eat that 1000GB limit. It also means true self-hosting is prohibitively difficult, as you’d be tying yourself to an external provider unless you go out of your way to host your own TURN server.

I feel like Matrix has gotten a lot of hate the last year or so. Don’t really know why. Perhaps people see it as being misguided.

Most of the possible contenders lack video calls and some also other needs mentioned by the OP. Nextcloud Talk has them all

Excellent summary

It’s funny you mention the VC funding. As far as I can tell, it’s only made it worse. Discord would have done great if they just kept expectations low. Instead, they’re now expected to create massive returns. That must come at the cost of consumers. I hope consumers get tired of it and leave, or someone else comes offering the simple service Discord used to provide.

As an archivist and data hoarder I hate discord with a burning, visceral passion.

Is it worth preserving though?

Call them cretins all you want, Discord in a great piece of software and very powerful. The usability is better than most others.

Voice chat works out of the box with Matrix.

It uses WebRTC and tries to do P2P connections. Note that this leaks your IP to the other caller and vice versa, but it’s also quite fast as you can establish a direct connection.

If P2P fails it will try to fallback to your configured TURN server and use that one for relaying.

However not every instance has one (as TURN servers are usually not that modern and straight forward…) and if this is the case it will fallback to Matrix’s global TURN servers.

I couldn’t figure out how to sign up for matrix server. Maybe there are peer tube videos.

XMPP is also still a thing and IMO much easier to host (at least ejabberd is). Look into Movim, which looks quite nice as a discord replacement on top of XMPP.

Setting up Element Call on my instance was difficult on its own, I understand why Synapse doesn’t come with it out of the box, essentially you spin up Matrix’s JWT service for authenticating clients and it if approved forwards the connection to the Livekit ports which must be opened on your firewall (ie port forwarded), otherwise people will not be able to connect to calls.

Big PITA and in my experience, on my home network, can conflict with games with VOIP chats so don’t follow the default 50000:55000 port range Livekit recommends or you’ll run into issues like I did, each person consumes 2 ports so adjust the range to your need.

Edit: I don’t suggest running Element Call standalone, it has issues of its own, once you get Livekit and JWT running and follow This guide you should have your element call support in Synapse now, pro-tip for those running synapse behind docker and get confused on the whole ./well-known part of the documentation you can edit your ./well-known in your homeserver.yaml file like such:

serve_server_wellknown: true

extra_well_known_client_content:
  optional: client
  "org.matrix.msc4143.rtc_foci": [
      {
          "type": "livekit",
          "livekit_service_url": "https://livekit-jwt.your.domain/"
      }
  ]

https://matrix-construct.github.io/tuwunel/deploying/docker.html?highlight=voice#voice-communication

tuwunel seems to have some docker guides for how to set up voice & docker.

Have you Trier ESS?

i also have a mumble server but every once in a while we need streaming. what is your rtmp setup? i am thinking of mediamtx, but am annoyed by having to post the link to the stream every time and everyone needs to resize windows manually to fit all on ome screen.

yes i second matrix. it’s different from discord in a lot of ways, but it’s still a pretty seamless transition. for anyone who wants to host matrix, i recommend the continuwuity homeserver software. it’s much easier to host than synapse and is significantly faster for 99% of use cases

if you’re just trying use matrix, i prefer cinny over element for the client. cinny’s ui is also very similar to discord’s and it handles space/room grouping very intuitively. there’s also fluffychat (less feature rich) and schildichat (element fork), among others. however, element is currently the only client which fully supports voice chat

for instances, i recommend choosing something other than matrix.org. right now, matrix is barely decentralized because the vast majority of users choose matrix.org, which isn’t great. also matrix.org collects a lot of data and requires more information to register than most servers. some other good public instances are:

• tchncs.de
• unredacted.org
• catgirl.cloud
• calitabby.net

there are also many, many smaller public instances, but it’s probably better to choose a relatively big one for moderation reasons. a lot of people think matrix is dead or no one uses it, but there are plenty of active communities if you know where to look

for your friends who refuse to quit discord for some reason, matrix’s ecosystem also has lots of bridges. if you’re willing to self host, i recommend out of your element. the only caveat is that it doesn’t support e2ee rooms

Can confirm, I host Matrix (homeserver synapse) and Element. Voice is a pain to get set up but I hear there are other matrix services which will do this for you easier. It’s a process though. You can get text chat up in a day, voice is going to be a bit after that, a lot of tinkering.

Not bad is a good description. It’s not fun to use compared to other chat software.

You se knowledgeable on this, so I hope you’ll allow me to ask this.

I don’t know anything about Discord, but I selfhost the Mattermost chat system for my family. They, too, are narrowing the free tier.

Can Matrix replace Mattermost for a family? Several separate “rooms” for various topics, plus 1-to-1 chats.

may i ask which homeserver and client you use? it seems like synapse and element is not the best choice especially for small number of people.

E2EE group chats on matrix seems to be a huge problem still. I look forward to their MLS implementation. Hopefully that fixes a lot of these UX issues.