- cross-posted to:
- aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
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Why does Europe send billions to this terrorist state?
white supremacy, neocolonialism, modern western guilt complex, how many reasons you need?
Yayyyy!!! Slovenia mentioned 🥳🥳🥳🥳🎉🎉🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮
lmao
(sorry for my poor english)
Proudly allied with the Front National (or whatever they call themselves these days to sound more palatable), which was co-created by a literal SS. That should tell you all you need to know about their true agenda.
Proudly allied with the Front National (or whatever they call themselves these days to sound more palatable)
RN - “Rassemblement National” -> National Rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rally
Formerly known as FN - “Front National” before that as you say, and before that “Ordre Nouveau” (New Order) and before that just a friendly bunch of SS members and collaborators along with a lovely group of terrorists know as the OAS (Secret Army).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordre_Nouveau_(1960s)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_armée_secrète
Charming psychopaths.
F haine as we used to called them
Lol, yeah the hate front sounds about right
Goddamn you lot like your false dichotomies.
Just because Israel has ties to the European far right, doesn’t mean that Russia doesnt.
There’s ample proof that Russia has funded and supported numerous far right personalities, exactly the same ones mentioned by Israel.
It’s not mutually exclusive for both Israel and Russia to have ties to them - both countries are, after all, far right authoritarian states barely pretending to be democracies, which is exactly what people like LePen and Farage are trying to install in their countries. It is of course why Trump loves them so much, as that is exactly where he is at.
I assume, but I haven’t seen proof that there are strong ties between Russia & Israel - I’ve seen a lot of persuasive evidence that falls short of proof (relationships between Mossad and what used to be KGB go back to well before the fall of the USSR).
Thank you, i do not have much more to add. All those far-right assholes regardless if from Israel, Russia, US and probably China are trying to destabilize Europe because they do not want them to be a global player, and they are doing a pretty good job.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no doubt China is quietly dabbling, and as the other poster loudly notes, the Yanks are elbow deep in causing trouble here too
The biggest supporter of far-right parties in Europe is Elon Musk.
There’s undoubtedly support coming from Russia as well, since it’s also an oligarchy, but can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
Why is it so hard to understand that these people have common interests, regardless of their nationality? Trump has much more in common with Putin than with an ordinary U.S. citizen.
Israel isn’t the driving force here either, because that country is insignificant. Its power comes from its billionaire backers—and the U.S. is, without a doubt, the biggest of them all.
Israel didn’t force the war against Iran on the U.S. It originated in the U.S. Please take note that you’ve been ruled by organized crime for decades. The U.S. is an oligarchy, just like Russia, and this didn’t just start yesterday.
Is it really impossible to overcome the crude nationalism that makes all of this possible in the first place?
There’s undoubtedly support coming from Russia as well, since it’s also an oligarchy, but can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
LOL. I’m in the UK mate. Don’t call me a Yank thanks.
I’m no fan of them either, and yes, US billionaires are also slinging money at the local fash, but that’s a relatively recent phenomenon - it started with the Russians, and the rest jumped on from there as far as I can tell, if you have some facts feel free to table them though.
Please take note that you’ve been ruled by organized crime for decades.
Maaaate, England has been ruled by barely organised crime for a millenium.
What difference does it make where you’re from?
You still think Russia is behind all this, even though Russia is just a clique of maybe 2,000 influential people. Why do I even have to explain this to you, when you come from a country where this bullshit has been going on forever?
It just doesn’t make sense to accuse an anonymous mass of people when it’s obvious who’s responsible: it’s the billionaires—all over the world.
Do you seriously believe that there are no people in Russia who vehemently oppose the actions of their rulers?
What difference does it make where you’re from?
Because literally your entire argument bar one point was predicated on the (incorrect) assumption that I was a hypocritical Yank who was blind to the “log in his own eye”. Your entire position unravels when that thread is pulled
can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
Not a Yank, and not a logical statement anyway I didnt mention the Americans and their fall into fascism at all, so I can’t logically be accused of trying to pin that on someone else when it didnt get discussed
Trump has much more in common with Putin than with an ordinary U.S. citizen.
True but irrelevant to the discussion of Israel and Russian backing of European fascists
Israel isn’t the driving force here either
I’m not sure the original post claimed that, but I certainly never said that
Its power comes from its billionaire backers—and the U.S. is, without a doubt, the biggest of them all.
Now that’s partly true, Israel wouldn’t exist without the trillions that the US has given them however the vast majority came from the US taxpayers though, not the billionaires - they don’t like parting with money as a rule.
Israel didn’t force the war against Iran on the U.S
Utterly irrelevant to the discussion of who is cosied up with the fash in Europe, it doesn’t really matter whether it was the Bibinazi or the Trumpynazi who decided they wanted to bomb Iran
And I kept the best till last
The biggest supporter of far-right parties in Europe is Elon Musk.
Not even a little bit close. There’s massive amounts of documentation on this - Farage and LePen with their grubby little paws out and getting caught taking Russian money both directly and then indirectly via crypto, not to mention the Hungarian dictator soaking up grants from the EU that were supposed to build infrastructure and redirecting it into funding the other far right wingers. Even as far as US billionaires go Muskrat is miles behind Thiel and Ellison (for example, although there’s plenty of others). Elmo is just as subtle as brick through a window and gets the attention, but if you follow the money, he’s a tight arse.
It’s pointless to even try to discuss this, given that we’re at least in basic agreement: In Europe, democracy must be defended against fascism and autocracy—and the millions upon millions of people are at a disadvantage here because, despite their numbers, they lack the means to assert their interests.
Nothing but hostility can be expected from the U.S., Russia, or China, because they are already autocracies—or at least oligarchies. All of them have an interest in the end of democracy in Europe—but I am particularly concerned about the U.S., because both our governments treat it as if it were an ally, which it most certainly is not.
we’re at least in basic agreement
I agree with you on that: US Russia and China, (and Israel), are authoritarian countries ruled by autocracies/oligarchies, or as as I prefer kakistocracy (shit lords).
The billionaires and the 1% most certainly don’t have our best interests at stake and are actively working to reduce the 99% to slaves or at the least serfs.
I have zero positivity about the US but you have to understand the process that got us here in order to best fight it. If you ignore Russia and China’s political meddling and only rail against the Yanks you will get blindsided. Israel are lapdogs of US with a bad attitude and more influence than they deserve, don’t ignore them or they’ll bite us like a rabid Jack Russell terrier.
Many many surveys show that the majority of Europeans don’t see the US as an ally any more, the only exceptions are the ones caught in the far right bubble.
The real danger is our politicians are easily influenced by bribes both direct and indirect (jobs after their political career finishes), and that’s our big exposure - you only have to look at the repeated attempts to bring in the Chat Control legislation so the US tech bros can surveil us - they kept re-attempting it until the snuck it through when EU MPs had gone on recess a day early.
I have to disagree with you there: No European would travel to Russia given the current situation, but they still went to the goddamn World Cup, even though Trump is threatening to invade Denmark—a country where he’s already sent workers without permission.
I honestly can’t understand how you can believe that Europeans have even remotely the same negative attitude toward the U.S. as they do toward Russia.
Still, let’s wrap this up now, because it’s getting us nowhere. We both really have other problems.
In the Netherlands the PVV is funded by israel and the FvD by russia. Both are completely incompetent but keep getting votes, cause “immigrants bad”. Anyway both russia and israel can fuck right off.
It’s the same way in the US, except that the Russia-backed right-wing party and the Israel-backed right-wing party are the only two parties we have.
Please send help.
The trick is having 17 parties so nobody has a majority and nobody can get shit done because there always needs to be compromising.
To be fair, “nobody can get shit done because there always needs to be compromising” is also known as “when Democrats are temporarily in power” in the US 🤷🏻
LOL. Well said. I wish there was something we could do. I’m afraid it seems to be 1776 again for you guys. Good luck.
“Deep conservative right”…so…Nazis. You’re all a bunch of kapos.
“Deep conservative right”…so…Nazis
Nah, fascists. All Nazis are fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.
For example, the Nazis were big into public infrastructure projects, pretending to be socialist, and restrictive gun laws.
At least one of those are anathema to every modern fascist movement, and to the richest and most powerful one, all three are.
I love how everyone in this comment section is like “Hold up now let’s not get carried away. Yes, the apartheid ethno-supremacists state who’s committing genocide and countless more crimes might have some connection with the
far rightfascists eu parties (they are admitting it) but in reality, behind israel, there is russia, israel is actually russian propaganda.”Bibi and Putin are literally best friends, no one is behind anyone, they’re side by side holding hands
Nono didn’t you read comments on this platform? It’s only putin, it’s always only Russia. If you think it’s something else, you are russian propaganda obviously. Stop thinking critically Jesus ✋
The title misrepresents the content. The guy says they’ve created a network of alliances, not that they’ve created the parties. The European far right parties are not Israeli creations, they are offshoots of our own societies.
They’ve conspired to be one of the main driving forces behind the alliance, though, going WAY beyond just supporting movements that were already present and successful.
To pretend that the West’s favorite fascist apartheid state isn’t at least partway responsible for the structure and success of the parties themselves as well as the alliance between them is inattentive at best, willfully blind at worst.
That’s an analysis based on vibes and what “sounds like it should be the case”. But the claim that the rise in fascist parties is not primarily and overwhelmingly so due to endogenous fascist, xenophobic and Islamophobic tendencies in European countries themselves but somehow the result of external propping up by some kind of Israeli conspiracy psyop does not stand to the simple Occam’s Razor test. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So give such evidence, buddy.
A much simpler explanation is that European and Israeli fascists have common cause. It really is that simple. Adding the extra variable that Israel somehow created European fascism assigns too much power to it and removes agency from Europeans, without explaining anything new that we already knew about the fascist phenomenon in Europe. And to be sure Israel never needed to create European fascist movements like some cartoonish anti-Semitic trope pulling strings in the background, Europeans happily created them on theie own.
We don’t need conspiratorial antisemitic tropes to condemn the genocidal Israeli apartheid regime. The evidence already in front of our eyes is enough… No reason to dumb down our analysis with some half baked rehashing of the protocols of the elders of Zion.
That’s an analysis based on vibes and what "sounds like it should be the case
Nope. That’s based on what the ACTUAL conspirators are admitting to conspiring to do.
the claim that the rise in fascist parties is not primarily and overwhelmingly so due to endogenous fascist, xenophobic and Islamophobic tendencies in European countries themselves
It’s not realistically possible to accurately quantify the proportions like that (unless “based on vibes”), but regardless, you seem extremely adamant about dismissing contextually crucial perversions of self rule by foreign enemies in order to prevent that the domestic ones are the sole significant culprits and could just as easily go it alone.
That’s not only misguided, it’s also actively harmful to any efforts to know the problem so that we have a better chance of dealing with it.
somehow the result of external propping up by some kind of Israeli conspiracy psyop
Now you’re just trying to build a strawman out of accurate observations 🙄
does not stand to the simple Occam’s Razor test
Sure. If you ignore where all the funding, organizing, and strategies for cooperation (between otherwise nationalist fascists from different countries, no less), that would be a reasonable application of the Razor.
Given ample evidence to the contrary, though, it would need complicated reasoning to refute and as such fails the test of the good Mr William of Ockham, Billy to his friends.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So give such evidence, buddy.
So… You don’t consider world leaders publicly bragging about funding and organizing a fascist takeover attempt of several countries’ governments “extraordinary”?
If so, there’s probably little if anything else that would persuade you.
antisemitic tropes
Anti-zionism ≠ antisemitism. Don’t be like the spokespeople of a fascist apartheid regime.
I’m not saying “the Jews are doing it” based on bigotry. I’m saying “the fascist apartheid regime is doing a lot of it” based on an overwhelming preponderance of evidence.
The evidence already in front of our eyes is enough
Clearly not, in your case.
No reason to dumb down our analysis with some half baked rehashing of the protocols of the elders of Zion.
Agreed. Which is why I wasn’t doing anything even remotely resembling that.
The Israeli douche is not describing a “conspiracy”, he’s describing public politics and public diplomacy. There is literally no conspiracy: it’s politicking. It’s coalition building, out in the open. Fascists are organising across borders. So why use the language of conspiracy? What’s with the cloak and dagger shit? The language of “admitting to conspiring”, what is it doing? It’s mystifying it, it’s adding an aura of “ooooh powerful people control shit behind the scenes”. What’s the point of that?
Of course antisemism and antizionism are not the same. That doesn’t mean that there don’t exist antisemitic ways of doing antizionist politics. Using the old tired tropes of conspiracy and behind the scenes control when it’s clearly public politics out in the open for all to see is an example of this.
And then let’s be super clear: what are you actually saying the Israeli apartheid regime did? If you’re attributing to them the coalition building among fascist parties, and then saying that the European fascists are better coordinated and more politically effective because of that coalition building, then yes that is a defensible thing to say (and you also don’t need “conspiracy” language to describe it).
But if you’re claiming that Israel somehow introduced fascism to parts of Europe where fascist politics would not have otherwise taken root, then that’s an extraordinary claim. If you’re claiming that Israel is “behind” the rise of fascist parties in Europe, that’s an extraordinary claim.
Note also the title of the thread: “Israel created and owns far right parties”. That’s blatantly conspiratorial language, that uses clearly antisemitic tropes. Again: it is possible to do anti-Zionist politics in an anti-Semitic way. Let’s not fucking do that. Let’s instead do anti-Zionist politics in an anti-fascist way.
And please don’t try to play the reverse uno card about quantification of the reasons behind fascism. Yes, we know where European fascism comes from and how these parties grew over the last 15 years. There is ample literature, and Israel is never described as the animating force of European fascism.
Israel has created alliances with European far right parties. That does not mean Israel created those parties. It just means both hate Muslims and hence work together.
Russia and Israel also have a weird relationship. They sometimes work very closely together. Like Russia is Israels biggest fuel supplier. Israel also has no problem with buying grain Russia stole from Ukraine. Also many Russian oligarchs have Israeli passports. Those contacts have grown stronger since Trump became president.
Before somebody cries about Iran. For Russia the war is absolutely perfect. It means less US aid to Ukraine and higher oil prices. Obviously Israel loves the war as well.
Don’t you wonder how a completely insignificant country like Israel could hold its own against enemies on all its borders? How did they manage to rise to such military prominence?
The answer is support from oligarchs. And these oligarchs—regardless of their nationality—share the same interests. They have dominated countries like Russia and even the U.S. for decades. I think it’s a mistake to still think in terms of the Cold War—Russia isn’t a communist country, but an oligarchy just like the U.S.
Israel is also an oligarchy today. This country no longer has the slightest connection to democracy—and that is no coincidence.
Israel could hold its own against enemies on all its borders
All of which have become enemies due to the actions of Israel and its Western backers.
Mustn’t forget that crucial detail, lest we accidentally help spread their Hasbara gaslighting talking points.
I believe that right away, though it wasn’t Israel—it was the billionaires. Israel is merely the state they have completely taken over and from which they are implementing their absurd “Dark Enlightenment” theory, whose goal is a return to a feudal class-based society. It is simply another term for what used to be called fascism, and before that, a class-based society—the logic remains the same: a select few are to rule over the majority without restriction.
It’s no coincidence that Israel has been protected and financed by the U.S. since its founding. On its own, it could never have gotten the world to ignore its atrocities. It’s the influence of powerful white men that has made this possible—the same wretched but powerful minority that is now doing the same thing in their country of origin, the U.S.
The Epstein files shed some light on their methods, and the fact that the U.S. regime protects all co-conspirators serves as proof.
Fascism in the Mussolini sense has a long tradition in the U.S. It was by no means defeated in World War II—not even in Germany, because the Allies, under U.S. leadership, ensured that not a single major industrialist—all of whom were die-hard Nazis—was prosecuted for any of their crimes.
The companies owned by these criminals are still among the largest and most influential in Germany today—from BMW to BASF, Thyssen-Krupp, Siemens, and many, many others. Their owners are still the descendants of those monsters who profited the most from the Nazis, and they owe their success to their counterparts in the U.S. That is why the German government consistently sides with Israel, even though its position could hardly be more at odds with the will of its citizens.
Of course, the US-support came at a price, which is why the U.S. is the nation that rose to become a superpower in the wake of World War II. Thus, the Nazis actually won in secret, and today they are claiming their spoils of war: They want power over the world, and it looks like they’re winning. Israel is merely their tool for circumventing international law that stands in their way.
wasn’t Israel—it was the billionaires.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Israel has more billionaires per capita than some of the richest countries in the world
