Because literally your entire argument bar one point was predicated on the (incorrect) assumption that I was a hypocritical Yank who was blind to the “log in his own eye”. Your entire position unravels when that thread is pulled
can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
Not a Yank, and not a logical statement anyway I didnt mention the Americans and their fall into fascism at all, so I can’t logically be accused of trying to pin that on someone else when it didnt get discussed
Trump has much more in common with Putin than with an ordinary U.S. citizen.
True but irrelevant to the discussion of Israel and Russian backing of European fascists
Israel isn’t the driving force here either
I’m not sure the original post claimed that, but I certainly never said that
Its power comes from its billionaire backers—and the U.S. is, without a doubt, the biggest of them all.
Now that’s partly true, Israel wouldn’t exist without the trillions that the US has given them however the vast majority came from the US taxpayers though, not the billionaires - they don’t like parting with money as a rule.
Israel didn’t force the war against Iran on the U.S
Utterly irrelevant to the discussion of who is cosied up with the fash in Europe, it doesn’t really matter whether it was the Bibinazi or the Trumpynazi who decided they wanted to bomb Iran
And I kept the best till last
The biggest supporter of far-right parties in Europe is Elon Musk.
Not even a little bit close. There’s massive amounts of documentation on this - Farage and LePen with their grubby little paws out and getting caught taking Russian money both directly and then indirectly via crypto, not to mention the Hungarian dictator soaking up grants from the EU that were supposed to build infrastructure and redirecting it into funding the other far right wingers. Even as far as US billionaires go Muskrat is miles behind Thiel and Ellison (for example, although there’s plenty of others). Elmo is just as subtle as brick through a window and gets the attention, but if you follow the money, he’s a tight arse.
It’s pointless to even try to discuss this, given that we’re at least in basic agreement: In Europe, democracy must be defended against fascism and autocracy—and the millions upon millions of people are at a disadvantage here because, despite their numbers, they lack the means to assert their interests.
Nothing but hostility can be expected from the U.S., Russia, or China, because they are already autocracies—or at least oligarchies. All of them have an interest in the end of democracy in Europe—but I am particularly concerned about the U.S., because both our governments treat it as if it were an ally, which it most certainly is not.
I agree with you on that: US Russia and China, (and Israel), are authoritarian countries ruled by autocracies/oligarchies, or as as I prefer kakistocracy (shit lords).
The billionaires and the 1% most certainly don’t have our best interests at stake and are actively working to reduce the 99% to slaves or at the least serfs.
I have zero positivity about the US but you have to understand the process that got us here in order to best fight it. If you ignore Russia and China’s political meddling and only rail against the Yanks you will get blindsided. Israel are lapdogs of US with a bad attitude and more influence than they deserve, don’t ignore them or they’ll bite us like a rabid Jack Russell terrier.
Many many surveys show that the majority of Europeans don’t see the US as an ally any more, the only exceptions are the ones caught in the far right bubble.
The real danger is our politicians are easily influenced by bribes both direct and indirect (jobs after their political career finishes), and that’s our big exposure - you only have to look at the repeated attempts to bring in the Chat Control legislation so the US tech bros can surveil us - they kept re-attempting it until the snuck it through when EU MPs had gone on recess a day early.
I have to disagree with you there: No European would travel to Russia given the current situation, but they still went to the goddamn World Cup, even though Trump is threatening to invade Denmark—a country where he’s already sent workers without permission.
I honestly can’t understand how you can believe that Europeans have even remotely the same negative attitude toward the U.S. as they do toward Russia.
Still, let’s wrap this up now, because it’s getting us nowhere. We both really have other problems.
No European would travel to Russia given the current situation
And yet they did. 9 months ago (AfD) and 15 months (MEP’s various including BSW) - first two hits on a search - I seem to recall the Hungarians doing a visit before they got ousted as well
EDIT to add - forgot to address the second point - Europeans don’t trust the US at all and it has been a meteoric slump from very positive to very negative
Because literally your entire argument bar one point was predicated on the (incorrect) assumption that I was a hypocritical Yank who was blind to the “log in his own eye”. Your entire position unravels when that thread is pulled
Not a Yank, and not a logical statement anyway I didnt mention the Americans and their fall into fascism at all, so I can’t logically be accused of trying to pin that on someone else when it didnt get discussed
True but irrelevant to the discussion of Israel and Russian backing of European fascists
I’m not sure the original post claimed that, but I certainly never said that
Now that’s partly true, Israel wouldn’t exist without the trillions that the US has given them however the vast majority came from the US taxpayers though, not the billionaires - they don’t like parting with money as a rule.
Utterly irrelevant to the discussion of who is cosied up with the fash in Europe, it doesn’t really matter whether it was the Bibinazi or the Trumpynazi who decided they wanted to bomb Iran
And I kept the best till last
Not even a little bit close. There’s massive amounts of documentation on this - Farage and LePen with their grubby little paws out and getting caught taking Russian money both directly and then indirectly via crypto, not to mention the Hungarian dictator soaking up grants from the EU that were supposed to build infrastructure and redirecting it into funding the other far right wingers. Even as far as US billionaires go Muskrat is miles behind Thiel and Ellison (for example, although there’s plenty of others). Elmo is just as subtle as brick through a window and gets the attention, but if you follow the money, he’s a tight arse.
It’s pointless to even try to discuss this, given that we’re at least in basic agreement: In Europe, democracy must be defended against fascism and autocracy—and the millions upon millions of people are at a disadvantage here because, despite their numbers, they lack the means to assert their interests.
Nothing but hostility can be expected from the U.S., Russia, or China, because they are already autocracies—or at least oligarchies. All of them have an interest in the end of democracy in Europe—but I am particularly concerned about the U.S., because both our governments treat it as if it were an ally, which it most certainly is not.
I agree with you on that: US Russia and China, (and Israel), are authoritarian countries ruled by autocracies/oligarchies, or as as I prefer kakistocracy (shit lords).
The billionaires and the 1% most certainly don’t have our best interests at stake and are actively working to reduce the 99% to slaves or at the least serfs.
I have zero positivity about the US but you have to understand the process that got us here in order to best fight it. If you ignore Russia and China’s political meddling and only rail against the Yanks you will get blindsided. Israel are lapdogs of US with a bad attitude and more influence than they deserve, don’t ignore them or they’ll bite us like a rabid Jack Russell terrier.
Many many surveys show that the majority of Europeans don’t see the US as an ally any more, the only exceptions are the ones caught in the far right bubble.
The real danger is our politicians are easily influenced by bribes both direct and indirect (jobs after their political career finishes), and that’s our big exposure - you only have to look at the repeated attempts to bring in the Chat Control legislation so the US tech bros can surveil us - they kept re-attempting it until the snuck it through when EU MPs had gone on recess a day early.
I have to disagree with you there: No European would travel to Russia given the current situation, but they still went to the goddamn World Cup, even though Trump is threatening to invade Denmark—a country where he’s already sent workers without permission.
I honestly can’t understand how you can believe that Europeans have even remotely the same negative attitude toward the U.S. as they do toward Russia.
Still, let’s wrap this up now, because it’s getting us nowhere. We both really have other problems.
And yet they did. 9 months ago (AfD) and 15 months (MEP’s various including BSW) - first two hits on a search - I seem to recall the Hungarians doing a visit before they got ousted as well
https://www.reuters.com/world/far-right-german-mps-visit-russia-scrutiny-moscow-ties-mounts-2025-11-06/
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/05/08/european-parliament-members-plan-moscow-trip-for-victory-day-commemorations-a89012
EDIT to add - forgot to address the second point - Europeans don’t trust the US at all and it has been a meteoric slump from very positive to very negative
Only 1 in 10 Europeans see US as an ally
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/10/only-one-in-10-europeans-now-see-us-as-an-ally-survey-suggests
https://www.dw.com/en/only-1-in-10-europeans-see-us-as-an-ally-study/a-77489708