Oh hell no
This sounds kind of mildly dystopian to me, as an EU citizen. Back in the 1970’s the EU could not have functioned without UK, and the exemptions were necessary. Now we can, and if we go out of our ways with being extra nice to them after they’ve endangered the future of EU, other member states will be inclined to do the same whenever some populist party gains enough foothold. Creating such a precedent would kill the EU.
Yeah, we’d be better off with UK than without, but if UK joins on terms that will endanger the whole future of EU, as suggested here, then it’s still better without.
Either they should join on sane terms, which they will be ready for already in about two decades anyway, or they should not join. It’s pointless risking everything by unnecessarily hurrying up with this.
I don’t think it’s this grim to be honest. I don’t believe this precident will change much. It is painfully obvious at this point that EU brings benefits to it’s members and this flipfloping doesn’t achieve much. And if any country gets usurped by a group of people for whom it’s not obvious, they’re gonna shithead with or without UK precident.
However UK shouldn’t get special privileges this time, but mainly so they’re not doing this brexit-breturn shit every time they chose a new party.The EU wasn’t a thing in the 1970s…
Actually it was. Back then it was called “European Economic Community”.
UK joined it in 1973.
That’s a different thing, which wasn’t the EU.
So, are you saying that the membership fee rebate and such things that UK had just did not exist? Cool.
It wasn’t the EU, it was just the same members as those of EU when it renamed as EU, the same flag, the same capitals and the same legislation. Cool, cool. Understood :)
But, because it had a different name, it was a different thing. Because it had a different name, it was not the EU. Which kind of is true, but… meh. If a woman marries and takes her husbands family name, does it mean the person with old full name and the person with the new full name are not the same thing?
Sally Smith, born in 1981, becoming Sally Jones in 2005 means that in 2004 Sally Jones did not exist at all? Cool.
Cool.
I’d be flexible on the Euro. And by flexible I mean “sure keep the £ for now, but you gotta commit to similar plans as the other non-€ having EU members” sort of thing. But only if thats the only deal breaker, like if they accept everything else, sure, let them keep the £ for a bit. But eventually it has to change.
As for Schengen, nah. That’s one of the main things about the EU, if you don’t want that, then stay out.
Fuck no. Full EU or stay out.
Why? Ireland isn’t in Schengen, and multiple EU countries aren’t using the euro, with no plans to adopt it (Poland, Sweden, Hungary, Czechia).
I’m British and I hope the UK and EU can have closer relations. But if the EU just wants to punish the UK for Brexit then that is going to go down badly with many Brits, so closer relations will become less likely.
It’s more like keeping their word. The UK was warned that rejoining would not include the same exceptions as before.
Because objectively, the brits had one of if not the best deal out of any EU country, lots of excemptions, rebates, special cases for them. But that wasnt enough, so they threw a tantrum and left.
It is wildly inappropriate and sends the wrong message to everyone else if UK gets to join at yet again super favourable cherry picked conditions. The EU should take them back as a true and full member only, not as this privileged cherry picked BS again that only stirs resentment from others. Commit fully to the EU like every other member and the trust is restored.
Not this.
But that wasn’t enough, so they threw a tantrum and left.
I don’t think it was necessarily just greed and racism that caused Brexit. There were a lot of people that weren’t happy with life in the UK, and a huge misinformation campaign cropped up at the wrong time to suggest Brexit would leave people better off and provide more money for the NHS.
I think what didn’t help is when there were celebs who weren’t struggling like everyone else were saying people would be stupid not to vote stay.
The misinformation campaign worked and a lot of those people that voted leave realised how they had been misled.
They had freedom of movement if they wanted to live anywhere else.
All of those millions for the NHS that was just a lie and we all only got told it was a lie afterwards. And we basically had people on the leave side admitting to just making numbers up.
Did you punish those people for lying? Or did the society (and their laws) decide that it was an ok thing to do?
No of course not, they just keep letting them get away with it because they are all getting paid by the same people arent they, its all just a game to them im sure
It was a very obvious lie. Your people believed that lie, and your people will believe similar lies again in the future, unless they change.
And just a few comments above, there was yet another Briton saying “the EU just wants to punish the UK for Brexit”, showcasing that no, that people has not changed a bit. They are still swimming very deep in the waters of exceptionalism, seeing being treated as just a normal country instead something better than others as “a punishment”!
New members don’t get any opt outs. And if you think full membership is a punishment, just stay on your island and leave us alone.
Ireland only isn’t in Schengen to accommodate the UK not being in Schengen, by the way.
But if the EU just wants to punish the UK for Brexit
It’s not a punishment to get a normal treatment instead of preferential treatment. If we go out of our ways to let you in at any costs, as suggested in the article, we’re making all 26 current EU countries inclined to do the same shit whenever they get similar populists in charge. That will eventually tear the EU apart. Coming and going, and then getting a goddamn prize in the form of preferential treatment for having done that, is not something we should allow. Leaving should really mean leaving for good. Okay, if things change, welcome back, but why should we go with a very bad deal we were forced to accept in the 1970’s when we were much weaker and had no other option? Now we can survive without the UK just fine, so we shouldn’t just bow ourself into a knot in front of them like we did half a century ago. Welcome back, of course, but only with the usual rules that apply to everyone else as well.
And, I must say, I keep seeing British people see being treated normally as a punishment. That’s some heavy level of exceptionalism. I keep seeing that attitude, and it’s not an attitude I want to see in a EU member state. English people who are saying shit like “EU just wants to punish the UK for Brexit” when what is being talked about is just not giving them weird exemptions or other kinds of preferential treatment that puts them over other countries, do a good job shifting my thinking from “you’re welcome to join” towards “rather not.”
And UK is not Ireland, Poland or Sweden.
And Poland, Ireland or Sweden didn’t waste shitload of time and resource of EU by staging idiotic exit.
💯
No one learned anything.
If you’re implying that Brits are all a bunch of Europe-hating backstabbers then I don’t think that’s true. I’m British and yes, some Brits don’t like the EU. Mainly older Brits. But a lot of Brits do like the EU.
According to YouGov, a British polling company, a majority of Brits have wanted to rejoin the EU for at least the last two and a half years, perhaps longer. Of course that level of support could change depending on the terms of rejoining the EU, but still.
Personally I think it would be good if the UK and EU forge closer relations in the coming years, but I don’t think rejoining the EU will be a realistic possibility for at least a few years, because eurosceptics in the UK continue to wield political power.
Then join with the same rules as everyone else. Why should the UK get special treatment? It only contributes to British inflated sense of self-importance and exceptionalism, and creates problems inside the EU because once you start creating exceptions everyone wants them.
Countries should either be in or out, there shouldn’t be a special snowflake of a country that’s allowed to be in and out all at once just because they used to be relevant 100 years ago.
You people are absolutely free to join. But the exemptions suggested in this article are just lunacy.
You had your special deal, didn’t like it, why would we offer it again
A minority of peoples didn’t like it, imposing their will over the rest of the country, after months of propaganda stuffed down their throats that said every permutation of lie possible to convince them it would be a good idea.
Brexit is something to learn from, not punish. It could be your country next. Otherwise the EU will be torn apart by its enemies and unforgiving responses like this will keep the EU broken rather than healing its wounds.
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A minority of peoples didn’t like it
So many in the majority were so okay with Brexit that they decided no to bother to go voting. Being indifferent about such a big thing is not a very good image.
66.63% of France voted in their last election.
66.59% of Spain.
63.79% of Italy.
59.7% of Ireland.With the world in the state that it is, people are disenchanted by politics and stuck in algorithmic echo chambers where the highest payer’s voice gets the strongest reach, not the people’s. The populous doesn’t get a clear view of the facts over any vote they’re asked to participate in.
Adding vitriol to their problems doesn’t make anything better; it won’t make people make better decisions. Inciting division because of “not a very good image” doesn’t inspire people either.
We’re stronger united, undivided, and supportive of one another. Wasting time blaming each other over the past, distancing ourselves from one another, or rejecting one another, does nothing but play into the hands of the enemies of Europe.
We should be building Europe up, not tearing it down.
Brexit is something to learn from, not punish
Sorry for replying again on the same comment I already replied to. But… Again this “punish”.
It seriously looks like the whole damn island is aboard this thought of “they are punishing us”.
How is it punishment that you are not given a preferential treatment? The thought that you not getting extra rights over other EU countries is somehow punishment is on a very high level of exceptionalism. What is punishment about having to pay the full membership fee according to the same rules everyone does? The rebate existed because EU was weak and really needed UK in, and UK was able to blackmail EU into the rebate. Why is it a “punishment” that we don’t agree to exceptional terms we were strong-armed into half a century ago? The same with the Euro and Schengen… How is it a punishment that you have to follow rules also we others have to follow?
This, how every damn conversation about brexit gets filled with English people going “EU wants to punish us” for getting the same normal treatment we all others have always gotten, really makes it look like you guys seriously do need more time out.
What makes UK so much better than Finland, France, Slovenia, Germany or Spain that it should be entitled to some extra rights over them? Can for example you answer, @fartsparkles@lemmy.world? Or @frogcat@piefed.social, because you wrote about the “punishment” as well? Where does this notion of “punishment” stem from?
I used the term not in connection to the rhetoric I think you’re (rightly) responding to - I’ve not encountered that so I can’t give you any commentary. I used “punish” in the sense that many want to only allow the UK back if they switch to the Euro etc (which personally I think would be best).
The issue lies in by making it harder to get the UK back on board (full EU membership vs EC membership) will likely deter the UK from rejoining (stupid “patriotism” and a fear of change plus the fact it’ll be latched on to by those that want to keep the UK disconnected from the EU).
The path of least resistance to reunite the UK and EU would be to restore the prior membership terms they had.
Brexit was fucking dumb but I think it’s dumber to deny them to return to their prior place than to not have them at all.
That said, my personal stance is full EU + Schengen etc should be the route the UK takes, if they could convince the public to agree to it.
The issue lies in by making it harder to get the UK back on board (full EU membership vs EC membership) will likely deter the UK from rejoining (stupid “patriotism” and a fear of change plus the fact it’ll be latched on to by those that want to keep the UK disconnected from the EU).
My thoughts regarding this are that as long as that something as banal as that deters them from rejoining, they really should not rejoin. Because they would still be a danger. I want to see the danger neutralized first, then they we can safely welcome them back.
But also: I was feeling a bit like I had written a little bit too harshly and I really appreciate the friendly tone of your message. You have awesome conversational skills, kudos for that!
This is a topic that stirs a lot of emotion so I totally understand and thank you for the kind words!
It wasn’t exactly a small minority, and the Bremaining voters apparently stayed home. I remember fondly Farage screaming for a 2/3s majority or it wouldn’t count, but boi was he suddenly happy with the more or less 3.5% difference for leave!
You’re not wrong, it was 1/4 of the population I believe. Which shows how at risk our populations are to misinformation and disinformation.
Brexit was a warning sign of the impact social media, social engineering, and charismatic yet morally bankrupt orators. Europe mustn’t be divided so easily nor allow grudges to perpetuate that division.
I am a Brit, writing this while on holiday in Portugal. Most of the year I live in Malaysia. No, I’m not rich, yes, I’m disappointed too. My penny’s worth:
- I’ve always subscribed to the European project and am ashamed of Brexit. I apologise to my European siblings that I wasn’t able to convince close family members to remain.
- East Asia is close to eating our collective breakfast, lunch and dinner. Brits, leave the past behind, it’s over. We still have many wonderful attributes to contribute to Europe. They and us are stronger together.
- Being the 51st state of America does not seem like a very good idea, at all.
- I’m just turning 60 and remember the current, decimal pound being introduced. It’s younger than me, it’s not something to be nostalgic about.
- It is the 21st century. Britain needs a governmental system appropriate for it, one that provides the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Our current system benefits the few and the legacy few at the expense of the many. Europe provides a better framework. I wish you all well but let’s pull our collective head out of our arse and get back into Europe, with humility, where we belong.
I’d wait for statements rather than the word of two officials. It is the Commission, Parliament, and Council having a say on this. What a Signal it would give to countries joining from the east too.
That would be so stupid. Anyone else wants a brief break from the EU to test the waters?
Well, that’s the same terms under which Denmark is a member. I think it’s acceptable.
And were Denmark to leave EU and rejoin Denmark would no longer have that sweet deal. And the British population - those still alive at least - knew that. But so many old people had just enough nationalism left in them that as a fuck-you before they left this plane of existence, they just had to screw everyone over.
I really feel bad for especially Scotland though, because I think a big enough % of them voted no to independence just 2 years prior to the Brexit referendum because it meant staying in the EU, that had they known of the result beforehand they’d have definitely voted for freedom from those clowns in the south.I just don’t see what we have to gain from being hardliners on this. And as you said, many of the people voting leave have died.
In practical terms, if your currency is pegged to the Euro there’s no difference to having the Euro. And many countries have partially-official Schengen deals or at least act like they do, control the borders they want to, etc.
However, Denmark participates in Schengen.
Theoretically, yes. However , since 2016 we’ve had ‘temporary border controls’ on the German and Swedish borders.
Edit: Utimately, the EU will be stronger with the UK back in. Militarily, economically, politically.
So let’s not be assholes about it - they were manipulated to leave, in part by Russian agents using the Cambridge Analytica data scandal to run political ads without informed consent, and also in part by their national politicians blaming everything bad on the EU for 50 years.
I think we’ve all learned from it, and I’d be happy to see them back in the EU.
I fear their direction on personal privacy. They are running a strong line toward US/Russia style oversight of people’s lives. Not to mention they have the most cctv in the world already, now they want to ban VPNs and push for IDs on all srvices.
Well, yes, but I also fear that from my own Danish government and many other governments in the EU. I still think the EU as a block will be stronger with the UK in instead of out.
Yes we will be economically and militarily. But militarily we have agreements already.
I don’t want to have desgrading return on investment in life because a line goes up somewhere for some dickhead and I am supposedly safer from a foreign enemy but I have now have a local enemy in my tech and home.
Fuck Politico
EUßerst bedenklich
nonononono
