If you want green cargo shipping, it might be better to look to the past. Way back in the day, all shipping was very green, powered by wind. Maybe we could have a return of sailing ships?
Though, of course, sails do have some big disadvantages, which is why they were replaced in the first place. You’d definitely want an electric (or even fossil fuel) powertrain available to use as a backup or in emergencies. But when winds are favorable, why not set sail and let very green wind energy propel you across the ocean? As an extra bonus, sails are cheap and a very mature, well-understood technology. All you need to do is scale them up.
The biggest difference at the end of the day is that sailing ships are generally slower and require much more crew. So overseas shipping would be slower and possibly more expensive. (Though the massive fuel savings might offset the expense somewhat?) But I don’t necessarily think that slower and more expensive overseas shipping would be such a bad thing in the long run. It would encourage more local production and consumption.
Perhaps crew could be reduced with some form of automated sails? I dunno most of the terms, but can’t a motor set and unset the sail? Perhaps make the mast retractable and such things.
I forget the article I read about 3 years ago about a modern cargo ship using sails to reduce the amount of fuel they use. Can’t find it now but if I can find it I’ll try and post it in an edit here
I saw some science-entertainment videos. There’s also these rotating “sail” cylinders.
Most of it sounded not viable for mass transport and more like PoC or tryout state.
Going back to sails is a cool idea, but I don’t see how it’s viable, nor will batteries be. We’re going to need to settle on some sort of sustainable liquid fuel for a few uses like shipping and aviation.
Maybe this is even some good that can be driven by militaries
If the only reason oil is being extracted is to power aviation, the cost of fuel, and hence of flying, will be higher and the volume of flights will go down accordingly. Win/win for everyone but the oil and tourist industries.
It was viable in the 1800s because it was the best method available. We don’t use it today because it ultimately costs more. A wind-powered company would have to compete against others using extremely energy-dense fuels that enable hundreds of times more cargo (between increased speed and increased capacity) for the same time and money.
So, in other words, it’s perfectly viable … just not economically viable.
That’s a failure of our economy, not of the technology. Perhaps if all the externalities of fossil fuel emissions were included in the cost of fossil fuel shipping (say, with massive taxes on fossil fuels to fund environmental efforts and carbon capture), that would change the balance.
I’m not sure sail is even viable, as in not compatible with modern capitalism. Most shipping has some sort of schedule or deadline, and you can’t just take an extra month “ because we were becalmed”
Although I was also going to object based on more complex harbors, but that leads right to battery power. Right where all the shipping, all the emissions, all the pollution comes together where it can harm people ……. Why not battery-only, while in harbor?
That’s like saying, “So it’s perfectly possible … just not physically possible.” If you cannot afford to do something, then you can’t do it. It’s freaking tautological.
Do you happen to know how battery or fuel cell ships are doing atm?
There are some, but afaik they weren’t ready for global shipment yet, but more local, due to range.
China is putting the infrastructure in place internally along their big ass rivers.
If you want green cargo shipping, it might be better to look to the past. Way back in the day, all shipping was very green, powered by wind. Maybe we could have a return of sailing ships?
Though, of course, sails do have some big disadvantages, which is why they were replaced in the first place. You’d definitely want an electric (or even fossil fuel) powertrain available to use as a backup or in emergencies. But when winds are favorable, why not set sail and let very green wind energy propel you across the ocean? As an extra bonus, sails are cheap and a very mature, well-understood technology. All you need to do is scale them up.
The biggest difference at the end of the day is that sailing ships are generally slower and require much more crew. So overseas shipping would be slower and possibly more expensive. (Though the massive fuel savings might offset the expense somewhat?) But I don’t necessarily think that slower and more expensive overseas shipping would be such a bad thing in the long run. It would encourage more local production and consumption.
Lol, I didn’t even consider sails.
Perhaps crew could be reduced with some form of automated sails? I dunno most of the terms, but can’t a motor set and unset the sail? Perhaps make the mast retractable and such things.
I forget the article I read about 3 years ago about a modern cargo ship using sails to reduce the amount of fuel they use. Can’t find it now but if I can find it I’ll try and post it in an edit here
I saw some science-entertainment videos. There’s also these rotating “sail” cylinders. Most of it sounded not viable for mass transport and more like PoC or tryout state.
Going back to sails is a cool idea, but I don’t see how it’s viable, nor will batteries be. We’re going to need to settle on some sort of sustainable liquid fuel for a few uses like shipping and aviation.
Maybe this is even some good that can be driven by militaries
It was viable enough in the 1800s.
Yeah … aviation in particular will probably be mainly fossil fuels for a long time to come, because it really needs energy density.
The solution there is just for people to fly less. (Which could be partially accomplished by having fast electric train routes.)
If the only reason oil is being extracted is to power aviation, the cost of fuel, and hence of flying, will be higher and the volume of flights will go down accordingly. Win/win for everyone but the oil and tourist industries.
It was viable in the 1800s because it was the best method available. We don’t use it today because it ultimately costs more. A wind-powered company would have to compete against others using extremely energy-dense fuels that enable hundreds of times more cargo (between increased speed and increased capacity) for the same time and money.
So, in other words, it’s perfectly viable … just not economically viable.
That’s a failure of our economy, not of the technology. Perhaps if all the externalities of fossil fuel emissions were included in the cost of fossil fuel shipping (say, with massive taxes on fossil fuels to fund environmental efforts and carbon capture), that would change the balance.
I’m not sure sail is even viable, as in not compatible with modern capitalism. Most shipping has some sort of schedule or deadline, and you can’t just take an extra month “ because we were becalmed”
Although I was also going to object based on more complex harbors, but that leads right to battery power. Right where all the shipping, all the emissions, all the pollution comes together where it can harm people ……. Why not battery-only, while in harbor?
And for that matter, battery power as a backup when you’re becalmed as well.
Hell, even fossil fuel power as a backup would be better than fossil fuel power as the main and only power source.
That’s like saying, “So it’s perfectly possible … just not physically possible.” If you cannot afford to do something, then you can’t do it. It’s freaking tautological.
“Can’t afford it” is very, very different than “not physically possible”.
If our economic system changed, then it could be perfectly viable again.
I didn’t sorry.