My Lords, we know that the 18 to 25 year-olds have many of the same complex problems as the under-18s and, as the Minister has said, they need similar holistic wraparound care, although that is not necessarily yet in place. However, Dr Levy’s review had a narrower remit than mine, focused on quality improvement rather than the model of care, so as a next step would the Minister agree to ask departmental and NHSE colleagues to convene a group, which should include independent experts, representatives of professional groups and representatives of the new children’s and young people’s services as well as service users, to consider how we best understand and, importantly, improve clinical outcomes for this group of young adults?
Who could have seen this coming? /s
First it was children, then teenagers, now young adults. Transphobes will not stop until trans people are eradicated.
Don’t. Give. One. Inch.
Absolutely infantalising horseshit. What a joke.
I vote she keeps her bigoted bullshit out of my loved one’s lives. Denying people medical care never makes anyone safer. See abortion bans etc.
so you’re gonna force them to look trans by fully developing bone structure and irreversible secondary sex characteristics of the sex they don’t want, marking them for life and causing dysphoria, and it can only be partially reversed by painful and time consuming surgeries that are also far more expensive than simply getting them on blockers/HRT when puberty starts
I fucking hate this world
yeah they’ll do that and then they’ll push it to 30 and eventually they’ll just ban it fully.
That would make it so much more difficult for people and cause so much needless suffering. I know people who left it late to start transitioning, and some of them struggle with regret that they didn’t do it earlier while their body was still developing. Why should trans women who know as a teen that they want to transition have to suffer a decade of living with a body and an identity they find unbearable every day? How many more people will succumb to despair along the way? It’s cruel, which I suppose is usually the point.
There are also people who transition at a younger age and regret it. I think 18 is fair game as you can decide basically anything else at that age in the UK, as it’s the age of majority.
A) That’s pretty rare (less than %1) and even for that tiny group the main reason for reconsidering are due to discrimination.
B) 18 could maybe be a fair age if blockers were still available, which they aren’t, thanks to bogus NHS claims.
Inform yoursef first before posting stuff like this, especially if it’s about something that absolutely doesn’t concern you in any way.
I found this article interesting because it discusses the complexity of regret and of estimating rates of regret, and it discusses why the estimates vary so widely depending on the methodology:
https://slate.com/technology/2024/02/transgender-youth-health-care-regret-pamela-paul-nyt-data.html
Neither detransition nor regret are simple concepts. Transition, as with all social phenomena, is complex. You can stop taking hormones and still be trans. You can regret taking steps that alienate you from your family, even as you wish your family would accept you living how you want to live. You can even regret some aspects of a treatment (any kind of medical treatment!) while being grateful for the knowledge you gained by trying it out. Regret doesn’t always mean that people wish they hadn’t transitioned, it just means that there are some parts of the story that they long to change.
thanks to bogus NHS claims.
I’d trust what the NHS has to think about it over some random on lemmy
if it’s about something that absolutely doesn’t concern you in any way.
It doesn’t work that way- it is something that concerns me, because in the United Kingdom, individuals under 18 years of age don’t have full autonomy. Therefore, under 18s are the concern of those who are on the electoral register. 18 is when we have decided people can make every life altering decision, so the precedent makes sense.
Your attitude may have caused us to mistakenly build an escalator system- where only people who seem to agree with a narrative get a say in the matter. So if someone has questions regarding said matter, they are only given one side of the argument. If they indulge that side, they are only encouraged. So no, nobody should be excluded from this discussion.
My position is simply that the topic is so complicated and nuanced that it’s only fair that we let an individual reach an age of understanding in order to make a life altering and irreversible decision over their personage and body.
I’d trust what the NHS has to think about it over some random on lemmy
Agreed that you shouldn’t trust random Lemmy comments. But the NHS on this issue is very driven by politics, rather than actual evidence of what provides the best outcomes for people. Here’s a well referenced analysis from a few years ago. And for example, the Dutch Health Council has a very different position than the NHS - I mention that mostly to illustrate that any given national health organisation isn’t inherently right, but I do also believe the Dutch one follows the scientific evidence more closely.
So no, nobody should be excluded from this discussion.
I get where you’re coming from but I fear that by making a point about “regret”, you’ve (perhaps unwittingly) contributed to scaremongering in contradiction to the available evidence (which points to that being only a tiny fraction of trans people). I don’t think it’s unfair to ask you to check your facts before posting and/or acknowledge a correction.
… make a life altering and irreversible decision …
Not providing healthcare is also a life altering and irreversible decision. As others have commented here, the later in life treatment is started, the more irreversible dysphoric changes will happen to that person’s body in the meantime, with generally poorer mental health outcomes. In particular, puberty blockers’ function is to pause those irreversible changes, not to cause changes.
I used to have issues with my own gender, I know people who did. My issues were ironed out. Some of my friends had their issues ironed out, and I know a few people who admitted in the past they briefly identified as transgender. Again, I also know people who still identify as transgender and I actually fully believe them when they talk about their dysphoria and bow it affects them. I can see why in this case, a sex change operation would be necessary. The latter person did say they’d also be happy if there was a cure for dysphoria to make them be happy with their sex, but there isn’t and they’re not. So I’m not too sure about all of this, as someone who was placed on a bit of an “escalator” by friends and people online when I was younger.
For what it’s worth, I do think it’s worth asking children why they want to be the opposite sex. For me it was a matter of shame. I know that some others felt similarly, that we didn’t fit society’s stereotypes. I believe this can be addressed by showing people how men/women don’t have to be conforming to xyz. At the same time, I believe genuine gender dysphoria exists and such a thing won’t work with people who have it. Which we have no known cure for. I’m basically mainly shaped by my own experience growing up in this society.
If puberty blockers truly don’t cause irreversible changes, then I don’t have an issue with teenagers being administered them if they are determined to have gender dysphoria. Some people say they do, some people say they don’t. I’m not qualified to speak on the scientific aspects, just my own ethical and moral aspects of it.
There’s no point in talking to you about this subject. Research proper studies (including the many ones debunking the NHS bullshit), read proper LGBT articles on the matter and find out why early medical (not necessarily any kind of surgery) is very important to keep young trans people safe or just stay out of this topic. I lost too many LGBT friends thanks to terrible medical care availability, constant harassment and discrimination, and so on.
Ooof this seems a bit problematic. The NHS is a neutral, non-biased healthcare service. Their interest is on treating humans well and considering all of the evidence available. LGBT articles would of course be one sided, and are more based on presuppositions in order to find the results or defend their claims and thus organisations, as opposed to trying to figure out from scratch which position is true (the scientific method)
why early medical (not necessarily any kind of surgery) is very important to keep young trans people safe or just stay out of this topic. I lost too many LGBT friends thanks to terrible medical care availability, constant harassment and discrimination, and so on.
I’m more interested in evidence over guilt tripping. I’d trust the NHS’s conclusions, which I know they have carefully considered and adjusted over the years as new information surfaces.
The “NHS’s conclusions” are not the conclusions of the whole body of doctors and nurses and specialists that make it up. If international health bodies have disagreed with the Cass Review, and specialists within the NHS have also disagreed with it, that doesn’t really paint a unified position of “the NHS” does it? This decision is painfully political and clearly up for debate, and the people in charge have made a political decision to take such an aggressively cautious position as to effectively fall entirely on one side of the argument.
Well hopefully it gets fixed then. We should be trusting the scientists who are qualified and have done impartial studies instead of wrapping this issue up in philosophical positions
Of course, by the age of 25, many will have solved their problem in their own way.
Seems too late. Just link it to the youngest age someone can join the military. If your old enough to kill and die in a warzone, you’re old enough to seek medical treatment
That’s a bit much imho. Should be 18, pending a doctor’s approval
Should be 18, pending a doctor’s approval
Why?
It’s the age we’ve decided that someone can make life changing decisions at. A medical professional’s approval is standard and routine for procedures that’s beyond getting paracetamol.
It’s the age we’ve decided that someone can make life changing decisions at.
Ok, firstly discarding Gillick competence (which is legally a warzone around gender transition right now but had previously allowed for gender affirming care for under-16s) the age that a child is allowed to make a decision on their own healthcare in the UK is 16 not 18, unless you see trans people as inherently less capable than cis, I don’t see why you’d push the age back further specifically for gender affirming care.
But more importantly, going through the wrong puberty isn’t life changing?
If it’s 16, then fair enough
But more importantly, going through the wrong puberty isn’t life changing?
I believe whether or not the term “wrong” to describe puberty in this instance is the subject of debate, both medical and philosophical. I have even heard some claims that puberty can fix gender dysphoria (although I don’t know how scientific this is, so don’t quote me)
If the NHS have decided not to give puberty blockers, well they have people making these decisions who are far more educated than me in this area and probably moreso than you, so I trust their judgement.
You keep being told to shut up if you’re not informed on this and then repeatedly opening your mouth to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no idea. You’re a dangerous idiot.
They also went on a rant about immigrants like a month ago. I dont even think they’re actually a committed fascist or anything just a Brit whose brain has been absolutely cooked by TERF Island fascist media.
Hopefully they are young enough to grow out of it and learn. Doubtful though.
I have no problem with legal immigrants. In fact, I think we need to be more accommodating to them.
The problem is that the decision to prevent the use of puberty blockers isn’t based on the decisions of medical experts but rather political groups more determined to erase trans people.
The Cass review, for example has been heavily criticised for its methodological flaws.
As someone who is both trans and has experience working in a related field of medicine it has been heartbreaking to see the NHS warped so cruelly by bigots and their agenda.
I have even heard some claims that puberty can fix gender dysphoria (although I don’t know how scientific this is, so don’t quote me).
It certainly didn’t fix it for me, I spent much of my teenage years trying to end my own life largely because of my gender dysphoria.
I hope you’re doing better now. I hear other people claim that about the pro-trans side. But I do believe politics should be kept out of medicine.
All the pro-trans side ever want in this debate is better medical outcomes for trans people. If that’s bringing politics to medicine then idk what the fuck apolitical medicine is.
