In July 2011, the anti-Muslim neo-Nazi killed eight with a car bomb in Oslo and then gunned down 69, most of them teenagers, at a Labour Party youth camp on Utoeya island.
In July 2011, the anti-Muslim neo-Nazi killed eight with a car bomb in Oslo and then gunned down 69, most of them teenagers, at a Labour Party youth camp on Utoeya island.
I don’t think most people here understand the Norwegian prison system.
We try to rehabilitate people. Having freedoms taken away is the punishment. Not living conditions. We give people opportunities in prison. We give some of the worst people in prison leave (yes, to leave prison) for hours sometimes, if we belive they will behave. Even though we don’t trust them to integrate fulltime into society yet. We don’t have lifetime in prison, but we have a system for the very worst offenders in which we can imprison someone for an extended period if necessary. And extend it indefininetly, potentially for life, but they get a chance to convince judges to release them once in a while.
When it comes to the article one shared about PS2 / PS3 complaints, it doesn’t really matter. We are better than him, we give all people, yes even terrible ones, a decent life. Upgrading his console costs nothing compared to the actual cost of having him imprisoned. What does Norwegians gain by witholding something that inexpensive? If he has a worthy life in prison, that’s good. I gain nothing from his suffering. I do however get the satisfaction of knowning that we try not to inflict needless suffering on other humans.
We care about other humans. We imprison to rehabilitate and to protect society until they are rehabilitated. We don’t punish to get revenge. Everyone is supposed to get out at some point.
Recently Norway released someone wrongly convicted and jailed for 20+ years. Imagine if he also had to suffer a needlessly horrible sentencing for that time.
Knowing we don’t have death sentence and that our prisons give the prisoners a somewhat ok life, gives me comfort. That makes me feel that if I or someone I care deeply about was wrongly convicted I or them would not suffer needlessly.
I would, I want to see him suffer.
I think Brevik also proved to other murderers that’s it’s okay, you can kill as many people as you want and at the end of the day you’ll be given good food, comfortable shelter, and entertainment. My life is no better than Brevik’s right now. It’s worse. I have concerns to deal with that he has staff to handle. I might as well do like him and improve my life. In fact I think you’ll get a better prison if you commit mass murder than if you “just” violently disable someone. I know the one Brevik is in is far more warm and comfortable than the ones in my local area.
I am sorry that you are in such a situation. I wish better for you.
There is a major difference however, you have at least the opportunity for a better life. (How real that opportunity is, is another matter and depends on a lot of factors).
A prisoner is at the mercy of the state without any option to change the circumstances.
I also highly doubt people would commit atrocities to end up in prison.
We do however have a strong welfare state in Norway that tries to remedy the worst issues with poverty for the individual, so that everyone have a certain minimum.
Edited 5 min later: If unneccesarilly cruel and harsh punishments worked, I guess USA wouldn’t have a lot of prisoners?
I feel like Brevik is demonstrating that he can’t be rehabilitated. Most people can be; some can’t. I’m not sure what else could be done with him at this point that hasn’t already been tried to change his belief system.
I do not foresee a point where he will no longer be a danger to other people.
I agree, I don’t see that happening either. And if that is the case he will never leave the prison
Is there no maximum sentence in Norway?
Iirc, in Germany, even if people are sentenced to e.g. 170 years for multiple crimes, they are let go after, I believe, 25 years.
The maximum sentence is 21 years of “forvaring” that translates to 'keeping" it’s not a regular prison sentence as it can be prolonged indefinatly. It’s for the worst offenders that are a danger to others as long as they have not improved during the sentence. Usually all prison sentences will include increasing length of leaves. Few hours with guards at first, then with half way house personell and in the end weekends and weeks alone. Breivik had had none so far, and is the only one who have little or no contact with other inmates.
Ah, now that you say “forvaring” …! Yeah, we have that too, it’s called “Sicherheitsverwahrung” (“preventive detention” in English). I recognized the term but I never knew what it was.
This is the way
I know some politicians who’d argue such prison conditions incentivized poor people to become criminals instead of seeking a job.
That’s more telling for the rest of the countries system.
Absolutely not. I’m not Norwegian, I’m German talking about german politicians.
Well, then you should become jobless and fall into the world of low wage jobs offered by the jobcenter for a while and see how totally non toxic that is. When I became 18 they send me to various institutions, expecting me to write like at least 30 job applications each month, requiring me to apply for Zeitarbeitsfirmen (back then we still had 1€ jobs). Every visit with the ARGE was a meeting with some sadistic asshole that just lived to make other people’s lives miserable, expecting you to stand at their door each day. Maybe you want to say no one in Germany has to be homeless due to our social systems, but that’s just bullshit. Even with the already terrible caveats I’ve said already, the amount of money you get is also just token money that keeps you somewhat afloat. But try living off of that for extended periods of time, experience when all your shit starts to fall apart and you simply cannot afford to replace them. I can absolutely see why people chose to live on the streets, or try to get imprisoned. Because then they don’t have to deal with any of this inhumane bullshit.
I am jobless due to health issues. I’m in the system for six years now. My current administrator wants to see me every three months. I can tell you stories, too, especially about getting hopes up and broken promises by the fading government.