cross-posted from: https://toast.ooo/post/15368324
The frontman of British punk rap band Bob Vylan was denied entry to Germany, detained at the Berlin airport, and ultimately deported to the United Kingdom last month due to his pro-Palestine statements.
German federal police justified deporting the band’s vocalist on June 15, referencing a performance at the Glastonbury Festival in England in 2025 where Bob Vylan led a chant of “Death, death to the IDF,” or the Israel Defense Forces.
A police file on Robinson-Foster obtained by The Intercept alleges that he disseminated antisemitic narratives and Hamas propaganda that could “radicalise certain segments of the [German] population” and serve as “ideological justification” for terrorist groups or individuals. It also says that Robinson-Foster poses a threat to Germany’s public security and public order. Allowing him into the country would cause “considerable reputational damage” by creating the impression that Germany was making “no effort to prevent the spread of the propagated antisemitism and the associated calls to violence.”
I’m sure philosophers argued about this many times already. Personally I don’t think we need to allow people to spread misinformation in order to ‘win’. For example we’re constantly flooded by anti-EU propaganda from Russia that is actually moving a lot of people to support the far right but we shouldn’t do anything to address it because ‘free speech’. I don’t buy it. It’s just a ‘slippery slope’ type argument. I think we’re perfectly capable of limiting harmful content without losing all freedoms. And we should. Obviously simply letting government decide what citizens can and cannot say publicly would be terrible but I’m completely fine with them not letting all the foreigners enter EU and say whatever they want.
These are the same thing.
I think what you’re looking for is better education. It’s the only way shit like this gets better. Ban it? People get upset and allow fascism. Allow it? Fascism.
The only way fascism takes root is with people that aren’t educated about it. It’s why the far right bans and burns books, or in my case in the US they have been defunding education for decades.
Blanket bans or arbitrarily allowing or denying people entry is not a solution.
Side note, I do appreciate you talking this out
No, foreigners are not citizens. You’re an absolutists that see any, even the smallest, limit to any right as equally bad. I think some limits are OK and they don’t mean we lose that rights. We don’t have to let foreign agents spread propaganda in our countries to protect free speech of our citizens. Sure, the government gets to decide who’s the foreign agent and what’s considered propaganda but I’m fine with that. I think long term limits like that actually help us preserve democracy and protect us from oppression, not lead to it.
Especially in cases where people try to bring attention to genocide in Palestine?
And what is the difference between citizen speech and foreigner speech?
Really, define that line.
Edit: and also, no absolutist, I’ve defined what I think is acceptable carveouts. We can define further, and I’d be all for that, but just denying people speech because you disagree is never the answer, especially when it’s about what this case is about.
Why especially? Sadly also in cases like that, yes. German people are perfectly aware of their government stance on Palestine. If they want to see foreign, pro-Palestinian artists they have to elect different government. Blocking foreign artists does not endanger the right of Germans to vote in free elections. I mean, some people will say that it does but that’s extreme view I disagree with.
I already explained. Foreigners don’t have a fundamental right to enter any country they want. You have visas and many rules around immigration. The government can decide not to let someone in if they think their presence is not beneficial. That’s based on current policy, not rights. Policies are set by current government. Rights are guaranteed by the constitution. In a democracy people elect a government and it sets policy within the constraints of the constitution. Changing constitution is more difficult. In my opinion this is system working as intended. If majority of people in the country doesn’t wont pro-Palestinian artists to perform in their country they can elect government that will ban them. As you pointed out, it will have little effect in practice. Banning citizens from talking about something is way more dangerous because it can have real impact. That’s why it’s protected by the constitution.
Replying twice because I’m not sure it will ping you that I edited my other comment.