I’m sorry that you’ve experienced racist stereotypes.
On the topic of the Israeli/Jewish distinction, it might surprise you to know there are Muslim Israelis. They’re a minority and normally treated like second class citizens, but they exist and they have citizenship. As I hope you know, there are also Jewish non-Israelis. Some of them, myself included, are even actively anti-zionist. The common association is that Israeli = Jew, but as I hope I’ve explained citizenship doesn’t necessarily determine religion, and conversely religion doesn’t determine citizenship.
I was solely referring to the equation above my first comment, that Muslim means religious while Israeli doesn’t mean religious. My point was, you can’t have one but not the other. Obviously, I disagree with Muslim meaning religious, as my experience is muslim in western society generally refers to a brown person from west asia, irrespective of their religion or how religious they are. Therefore, I also disagree with Israeli meaning religious, since there are plenty of non practicing Jewish Israelis. Furthermore, even accepting that Muslim equals religious, I don’t see why that would explain the answer google gives in the post to call 911.
I’m also well aware of all the non Israeli Jews, particularly in light of the most prominent anti-zionist people I know of being Jewish. A lot of my political views of Israel have been informed by Chomsky and Finkelstein. So I hope my comment didn’t come across as me being anti-jewish, and I apologize if it did.
Interestingly, a reply to my comment asks if I ‘present’ myself as being muslim when I meet people. Very revealing, as I don’t know how someone presents as Muslim, beyond being brown and vaguely west asian. There isn’t exactly a Muslim uniform that I’m aware of. But that’s the environment we live in. Be brown, be west asian, and you’re Muslim no matter your religion or lack thereof. Be an Indian Muslim or an Indonesian muslim, and you won’t be ‘presenting’ as Muslim.
Sorry, I obviously read too much into the final sentence of that comment.
People are obviously free to use, remake and mold language as they see fit. If that’s the way you’re using Muslim, then go for it. As a piece of friendly advice, because of common usage, don’t be surprised that people understand that word differently.
The stereotyping of brown skin = follower of islam (to use your terminology) I can 100% understand being very frustrating and annoying. For people that have given this more than 10 femtoseconds of thought, it’s obviously ridiculous to “present” as any particular religion outside of wearing traditional religious garb or wearing religious symbols.
Though in Israel, Israeli nationality (which there, unlike pretty much the rest of the World, is a different thing from citizenship) by the country’s own constitution is something only a Jewish person can have.
So one can indeed be a Muslim citizen of Israel but one cannot be an Israeli national unless one is a Jew.
Ultimatelly and going back to the original post, does “Israeli” there stand for “Israeli citizen” or “Israeli national”?
I’ve never heard of that distinction. When I’m talking about Israelis, I mean Israeli citizens (and I’m relatively confident most others do as well). What does an Israeli national have in terms of rights and responsibilities that a citizen doesnt?
Fair enough. I’ve seen countless examples of citizens in the same country not having access to the same services, resources and in some cases even legal recourse as other citizens. Reminds me of some pictures of “White residents only” signs I saw from Jim Crow era US.
If that’s the way you’re using the distinction, then yeah, it’s functionally the same as being discriminated against and a second-class citizen.
I’m sorry that you’ve experienced racist stereotypes.
On the topic of the Israeli/Jewish distinction, it might surprise you to know there are Muslim Israelis. They’re a minority and normally treated like second class citizens, but they exist and they have citizenship. As I hope you know, there are also Jewish non-Israelis. Some of them, myself included, are even actively anti-zionist. The common association is that Israeli = Jew, but as I hope I’ve explained citizenship doesn’t necessarily determine religion, and conversely religion doesn’t determine citizenship.
I was solely referring to the equation above my first comment, that Muslim means religious while Israeli doesn’t mean religious. My point was, you can’t have one but not the other. Obviously, I disagree with Muslim meaning religious, as my experience is muslim in western society generally refers to a brown person from west asia, irrespective of their religion or how religious they are. Therefore, I also disagree with Israeli meaning religious, since there are plenty of non practicing Jewish Israelis. Furthermore, even accepting that Muslim equals religious, I don’t see why that would explain the answer google gives in the post to call 911.
I’m also well aware of all the non Israeli Jews, particularly in light of the most prominent anti-zionist people I know of being Jewish. A lot of my political views of Israel have been informed by Chomsky and Finkelstein. So I hope my comment didn’t come across as me being anti-jewish, and I apologize if it did.
Interestingly, a reply to my comment asks if I ‘present’ myself as being muslim when I meet people. Very revealing, as I don’t know how someone presents as Muslim, beyond being brown and vaguely west asian. There isn’t exactly a Muslim uniform that I’m aware of. But that’s the environment we live in. Be brown, be west asian, and you’re Muslim no matter your religion or lack thereof. Be an Indian Muslim or an Indonesian muslim, and you won’t be ‘presenting’ as Muslim.
Sorry, I obviously read too much into the final sentence of that comment.
People are obviously free to use, remake and mold language as they see fit. If that’s the way you’re using Muslim, then go for it. As a piece of friendly advice, because of common usage, don’t be surprised that people understand that word differently.
The stereotyping of brown skin = follower of islam (to use your terminology) I can 100% understand being very frustrating and annoying. For people that have given this more than 10 femtoseconds of thought, it’s obviously ridiculous to “present” as any particular religion outside of wearing traditional religious garb or wearing religious symbols.
This is why it’s so important to talk about zionism/zionists - the genocidal ideology that’s the heart of the problem.
Many jews are anti-zionist and the vast majority of zionists in USA are christian.
Christians fucking up shit once again.
Though in Israel, Israeli nationality (which there, unlike pretty much the rest of the World, is a different thing from citizenship) by the country’s own constitution is something only a Jewish person can have.
So one can indeed be a Muslim citizen of Israel but one cannot be an Israeli national unless one is a Jew.
Ultimatelly and going back to the original post, does “Israeli” there stand for “Israeli citizen” or “Israeli national”?
I’ve never heard of that distinction. When I’m talking about Israelis, I mean Israeli citizens (and I’m relatively confident most others do as well). What does an Israeli national have in terms of rights and responsibilities that a citizen doesnt?
If I remember it correctly it’s things like regional authorities being able to refuse residence in their region to mere citizens but not to nationals.
Mind you, it’s been some years since I saw the documentary about the whole thing.
Fair enough. I’ve seen countless examples of citizens in the same country not having access to the same services, resources and in some cases even legal recourse as other citizens. Reminds me of some pictures of “White residents only” signs I saw from Jim Crow era US.
If that’s the way you’re using the distinction, then yeah, it’s functionally the same as being discriminated against and a second-class citizen.