Have a look at Mariahilferstrasse in Vienna. There were the same arguments. Where does the traffic go? Which streets are gong to be made worse in compensation for making one better.
The answer to that was, none. No street was made worse to accomodate more cars. The traffic in the case of Mariahilferstrasse simply mostly disappeared. It did not spill over to other streets.
Mariahilferstrasse seems different because it seems to still allow cycling, unlike Camden High Street, and also the nearest primary cycle route on Siebensterngasse is not an obvious alternative driving route in either direction, unlike Pancras Road / Royal College Street which seems a reasonably obvious route for anyone driving north from the Somers Town or Bloomsbury bits of Euston Road or points south and east of there.
It may well be that there’s been no measurable effect so no mitigation needed, but it would be good to see the data for Camden if anyone knows it, not just extrapolations from different situations and predictions.
That is a bit besides the point. My point was that car traffic did not move to parallel streets like Gumpendorfer Straße, even though there was very heavy traffic on Mariahilferstraße previously. The traffic simply disappeared. If that is the case, it really does not matter if and what kind of cycling roads are around it, none of them will see a strong rise in car traffic.
Besides your point, not mine, plus the OSM history suggests Mariahilferstrasse was only a secondary highway, not a primary like CHS was, so I’d still love to see real data about Camden’s pedestrianisation showing that the motor traffic has really disappeared without also making cycle traffic disappear, and not blindly trust it’s possible to extrapolate from demotorisation of a less important highway in a smaller city.
You were talking about issues for cyclists because of diverting car traffic, or did I misunderstand you?
Mariahilferstraße was a real traffic hell. On maps it might have been classified lower in priority but if you had seen it in the good old days, the main difference was that it had less throughput in cars because it was more traffic jammed than other routes.
That said, Camden High Street appears to be a 4 lane road. So that is indeed somewhat worse. So kudos for the planners that they are doing something about it. Of course there should be supporting actions but they certainly shouldn’t be relocating traffic or making other streets worse.
I don’t have any data but yes, it would be interesting to see what the 18 month test run was doing to traffic patterns. If cyclist routes had been really impacted, actions should be taken to upgrade cycling infrastructure, or priority in the cylicing/car mix of modes along key routes.
Good but has it increased motor traffic on Cycleway 6 Royal College Street and will there be any mitigation if so?
Probably not intentionally considering what community you are in right now, but your comment sounds like this meme.
That being said blocking access to certain roadways can actually decrease car volumes in other locations. This is called Braess’S Paradox.
This video explains this counterintuitive effect better then I can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mlH9bnvWVE
How the heck does me wondering how diverted cars are being kept off the primary cycleway sound like that meme? It’s the literal opposite.
I’m well aware some traffic will evaporate and I also know how to suck eggs, thanks.
Have a look at Mariahilferstrasse in Vienna. There were the same arguments. Where does the traffic go? Which streets are gong to be made worse in compensation for making one better.
The answer to that was, none. No street was made worse to accomodate more cars. The traffic in the case of Mariahilferstrasse simply mostly disappeared. It did not spill over to other streets.
Mariahilferstrasse seems different because it seems to still allow cycling, unlike Camden High Street, and also the nearest primary cycle route on Siebensterngasse is not an obvious alternative driving route in either direction, unlike Pancras Road / Royal College Street which seems a reasonably obvious route for anyone driving north from the Somers Town or Bloomsbury bits of Euston Road or points south and east of there.
It may well be that there’s been no measurable effect so no mitigation needed, but it would be good to see the data for Camden if anyone knows it, not just extrapolations from different situations and predictions.
That is a bit besides the point. My point was that car traffic did not move to parallel streets like Gumpendorfer Straße, even though there was very heavy traffic on Mariahilferstraße previously. The traffic simply disappeared. If that is the case, it really does not matter if and what kind of cycling roads are around it, none of them will see a strong rise in car traffic.
Besides your point, not mine, plus the OSM history suggests Mariahilferstrasse was only a secondary highway, not a primary like CHS was, so I’d still love to see real data about Camden’s pedestrianisation showing that the motor traffic has really disappeared without also making cycle traffic disappear, and not blindly trust it’s possible to extrapolate from demotorisation of a less important highway in a smaller city.
You were talking about issues for cyclists because of diverting car traffic, or did I misunderstand you? Mariahilferstraße was a real traffic hell. On maps it might have been classified lower in priority but if you had seen it in the good old days, the main difference was that it had less throughput in cars because it was more traffic jammed than other routes.
That said, Camden High Street appears to be a 4 lane road. So that is indeed somewhat worse. So kudos for the planners that they are doing something about it. Of course there should be supporting actions but they certainly shouldn’t be relocating traffic or making other streets worse.
I don’t have any data but yes, it would be interesting to see what the 18 month test run was doing to traffic patterns. If cyclist routes had been really impacted, actions should be taken to upgrade cycling infrastructure, or priority in the cylicing/car mix of modes along key routes.