That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
They lose elections because people are too stupid…
That’s the whole problem. Democrats see the very understandable cynicism many people have around their vote actually mattering in our current political reality, and they conclude it’s because they’re stupid or misinformed.
Right, so instead of swinging wildly back and forth, hopping that one weird trick will eventually save us, a smart strategy would realize this and be strategic.
I’m not saying this to defend dems, they are a problem as well, just not as much of an existential one. They have shown that voter pressure still leads to change, maybe not always done right, but Biden bowed out eventually due to pressure, the other side NEVER will.
We have the power, the vote can still work, the powers that be know what our idiotic voting patterns are though and they use us. Time for us to use the fucking system against them.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
What is the alternative during the actual election?
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle.
You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.
He’s a russian troll, and regular contributor to the cesspool that is the latestagecapitalism instance. They’re all just trying to what-aboutism democrats out of voting. That’s their only goal. That’s all they do.
u/Godlesscommie, u/saltyamerican, and u/tropicaldingdong. They’re all just the same bullshit.
That’s fine. But if that how you approach an election you hand governence to the fascists. You can have the attitude that it’s acceptable to take the lessor of two evils: But if you run a campaign or election in that manner, you lose the election.
It’s not an acceptable or viable strategy which Democrats can use to win. They lose when they engage with your sentiment. It’s remarkablely clear that voters don’t respond to voting for the lessor evil. You can be mad about h that or angry with voters, but you can’t keep living in denial of it as a stated fact.
Campaigns have to conform to voters for them to be successful. Politicians need to reach and meet voters where they are at and engage their policies and positions to conform to what voters want, or they lose elections.
We’re not in the mess because of how voters behave. We’ve always known that the approach you outline loses elections. You should really grapple with the sentiment you are expressing here because the cognitive dissonance is within in this case.
In 2024 you had two Democratic candidates for president both refuse to go to where their voters were in terms of policy. And it lost an election. And your frustration is then repreojected onto voters. You’ve got it backwards. All of your frustration should be with the candidates who stepped away from where the votes they need to get elected were. And everyone with eyes saw this happening in 2024. Outside of party loyalists, no one was fooled by either Biden or Kamalas campaign or why it was happening.
The problem is that major Democratic campaigns refuse to acknowledge this and instead insist the voters conform to the corporate and AIPAC donors want. And what that class of donors wants from candidates loses elections.
It’s how you have to approach an election in this country. The time to push is during the primaries, but after that you have to pick the least bad option, or you get stuff like a second ongoing genocide.
Two genocides is worse than one.
Jfc can you please try and live in an evidence based reality.
NO. Fucking stop. Stop losing elections on our behalf by promoting a evidentiarilly demonstrated-to-be a failure strategy.
That’s not how fucking elections work. Democrats lose elections when they do what you are advocating for. Please fucking stop. We can’t afford to continue to lose because you insist on both being wrong, and having your way.
StabbingSky is not running a campaign. They don’t lose elections. You (plural) are conflating two arguments:
And then a lot of arguing at cross purposes ensues.
They lose elections because people are too stupid to realize that change starts locally, starts with the primaries. It’s always taken attention and work, but most people just show up on Election Day and bitch about their choices.
What is the alternative during the actual election? You need to get the fucking party that still contains some sane people in it in power, then you work your ass off to get rid of the shitty corporate ones. A general election is not the place for activism, it’s where you do damage control.
That’s the whole problem. Democrats see the very understandable cynicism many people have around their vote actually mattering in our current political reality, and they conclude it’s because they’re stupid or misinformed.
Right, so instead of swinging wildly back and forth, hopping that one weird trick will eventually save us, a smart strategy would realize this and be strategic.
I’m not saying this to defend dems, they are a problem as well, just not as much of an existential one. They have shown that voter pressure still leads to change, maybe not always done right, but Biden bowed out eventually due to pressure, the other side NEVER will.
We have the power, the vote can still work, the powers that be know what our idiotic voting patterns are though and they use us. Time for us to use the fucking system against them.
This is the wrong question to be asking because, as I seem to continuously have to repeat, this isn’t how voters operate and not how elections work. Its not how people operate. And in an election, you don’t get to decide how people work. People work however they work. You have no other choice than to adapt to that if your goal is winning an election.
There is a rot in the brain of liberals, which emerged as an extension of a suite of propaganda around “strategic voting”. If pushed I could dig up the original clip which was making the rounds almost a decade ago. And the problem with this brain worm, is that it fundamentally misunderstands how voting functions, how voters function, how elections work, and more critically, it does a standard kind of slight of hand that we’ve seen so many times, where it displaces responsibility from systems and people in power, onto individuals within that system. And you, in your response, are victim to that slight of hand.
Its what the oil industry did when they put the onus for climate change onto individuals (recycling, reducing use, cutting down on meat). Its what the tobacco industry does. And its what the DNC does. Rather than allow the conversation to be about those actually in power, who can actually decide to do things differently, the conversation is flattened to one where, through some magical unprecedented mechanism, mass individualist collective action is expected to manifest, and not only, but to also land on the same collusion around the value of Democrats value when put into power.
Its pure fantasy. It based on hypothetical proposition of voter behavior, one which has repeatedly been demonstrated to be false. There is simply no mechanism for it.
Push the candidate to where the voters are. Be critical of candidates, harshly so. Force them to hear the criticism so that they move to where voters are. Do not allow them to persist in echo chambers.
You can not move voters in the course of an election cycle. You can move a candidate in an afternoon or during the course of one conversation.
It seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the US election system works. Go read up on it.
Wrong.
Yes, you are.
Not.
You’re so demonstrably wrong, and disgustingly unempathetic, and proud on top.
He’s a russian troll, and regular contributor to the cesspool that is the latestagecapitalism instance. They’re all just trying to what-aboutism democrats out of voting. That’s their only goal. That’s all they do.
u/Godlesscommie, u/saltyamerican, and u/tropicaldingdong. They’re all just the same bullshit.