• 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        it’s getting closer, Israel is so close to collapsing. every day Iran fires on Israel is a day where its economy is completely halted. It’s stretched incredibly thin with all their war fronts. they are becoming extremely unpopular, US population is now more in favor of Palestine than Israel. as soon as the USA stops supporting Israel (and the USA doesn’t become a Trump dictatorship… fuck it already is) Israel will become a pariah state with little support.

        • JigglySackles@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I don’t think you have any idea how much reach Israel has in the US. How much of the US is actually controlled by Israeli interest groups. And how many Zionists live in america. Israel is nowhere near collapse. And US support is nowhere near gone.

          I hate it and I wish I could personally gut every one of the tyrannical bastards involved. But I and many others that feel similarly are ultimately without power to change this. Protesting only works when those in power have a conscience. We need a violent uprising to effect any change in the US and that won’t happen. Not through lack of desire but through the inability to gather in appropriate numbers.

          Edit:just saw in another comment that you are Israeli so maybe you have an insight that I don’t. But from a US perspective I just don’t see anything changing.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            no doubt AIPAC and ADL have a hold of US politics. however, it’s a very fragile hold. people are waking up and primarying out candidates that take AIPAC cash.

            and taking AIPAC money for campaign funds is useless if it makes you unelectable.

              • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                if you can. check your local Dems, regardless of how much they suck, and see if there’s an actual progressive running, then vote for them in the primaries.

            • dxt15700@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              Don’t forget CUFI. These people are genuinely nuts. My old church had a CUFI pastor before I realized he was intentionally misreading the bible to promote his agenda. Wild stuff.

            • Katana314@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              AIPAC has some tacticians among them. They know the acronym itself is hated and mistrusted. But, it’s very common and possible for reasonable people to see a convincing political ad, and not ever realize it was funded by AIPAC indirectly.

              • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                technically, AIPAC doesn’t give anyone campaign funds or political donations. they have clever legal ways around lots of laws.

                their modus operandi is to connect politicians looking for bribes with rich individual who will bribe them on AIPAC’s behalf. so it’s never a foreign interest group bringing politicians.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            no income inequality? trust in government? 20% of Israelis are arabs and are legally second class citizens, high poverty rates, and definitely a mistrust in the government. and that is only considering those Israel considers as people, as Palestinians under occupation have no rights at all. so bullshit, there is massive inequality and mistrust of the government.

            my understanding of the damages Iran is causing comes from family I have in Israel, even though the total destruction is minimal, the actual effect for Israel is a total economic pause in practically all productivity. Given that during bombings, they have to spend the time hiding in shelters (which only Jewish communities get, arab Israeli communities only get mocked if hit).

            Lol, they closed the port in Eilat, it literally went bankrupt.

            Latest polls call on your bullshit, there is more support for Palestine than Israel in the US.

            my question is, why is a Russian propagandist doing Hasbara work?

    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I am not sure about “will be” but I certainly hope Palestinians get a chance to live a happy and worry-free live again - with the Israeli population understanding the horrors committed in their name, war criminals brought to justice and a peaceful nation of Israel in the future. One can dream.

      • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Israeli population doesn’t give a shite about the atrocities they are committing, some do, but they are such a minority.

        it will collapse the moment the US stops funding it. And if the dems want to win ever again they must. given that recently the polls show that more Americans support Palestine instead of Israel.

        • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Propaganda is unfortunately very effective, and the majority of the Israeli population, similar to the ‘murica population, similar to the population of Putinland, and many others in the world, has taken the bait of hate hook, line and sinker. That doesn’t mean the average Israeli was born more or less evil than you or me. Which means every new generation has a chance of being better than their parents’ generation.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Israeli population is without a doubt evil, they keep voting for genocide and apartheid. Not doing a genocide is a fringe idea there. you can blame generations of propaganda, but you can’t use that to absolve them for the horrors they created.

            • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              I have a problem with the use of the word “evil”, and even when I do it myself, I am aware it is only a crutch to describe people with what I consider to be brain (developmental) damage to the point of narcissism and having no empathy.

              But as I said, propaganda is strong. Calling the Israeli population evil is misunderstanding the problem and is accordingly not helpful at all in finding a solution (which I do not have either). That said, yes, it is shocking what evil acts are okay with people in Israel, but there are hundreds of millions of people in other parts of the world who also find such atrocities acceptable. And in my own country of origin, Germany, we definitely have our own share of people who do not give a fuck about the Palestinians and shrug off the ongoing genocide as “self defense”.

              What is happening is horrible, but dehumanizing Israelis is NOT a solution - but it’s a really dangerous path towards keeping a blood feud alive.

              • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                I’m talking from lived experience, I am Israeli, I lived there, have family there. And they are incredibly racist people. you can blame generations of propaganda, but the reality that they are extremely hateful towards arabs.

                the first joke my roommate told me at work “what do you call an arab drawning in the sea? pollution, how do you call 9 million (Palestinian population at the time) arabs drawning in the sea? Solution”.

                Yes, I met some who hated it, and wanted peace and equality with arabs (still wouldn’t call them Palestinians), but they are a tiny minority.

                they keep voting for this genocide, they celebrate it. they go to places to see the bombs falling as if it where a fire works show. they made a fuzz about the right of prison guards to rape Palestinians, turning the guard who raped Palestinian prisoners into a national hero.

                whatever the reason (you can bring up the Standford prison experiment) they are evil, and if you want to disagree, you can’t disagree that they act evil. they see their neighbors and not see them as human. If we wait for their consent to end the genocide, it’ll never end.

                • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  whatever the reason (you can bring up the Standford prison experiment) they are evil, and if you want to disagree, you can’t disagree that they act evil. they see their neighbors and not see them as human. If we wait for their consent to end the genocide, it’ll never end.

                  You make the relevant distinction yourself: “they” (I don’t like the word when there’s clearly exceptions) act evil. No doubt about that. That doesn’t mean Israeli people are inherently worse or better than the rest of us.

                  And in the current scenario, there’s no consent to be awaited, but the necessary international action to boycott Israel (and other genocidal/ terrorist states) at all fronts is simply not happening, and that is depressing.

                  • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                    3 days ago

                    i don’t mean that Israelis are inherently evil, like they have evil genes, or they are demonic. just that their actions reflect that. I still deal with Israelis regularly, and God, they all need some serious deprogramming.

      • ZMoney@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        The point of the chant is that by resisting the genocide we are all Palestinian. We participate because we believe in the self-determination and human rights of all peoples. By resisting Israeli and US aggression and oppression, we are all Palestinian.

        • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I wish it was so, for solidarity, I want to say I’m Palestinian. but I can’t shake the reality that I’m Israeli, and even though I left in 2010, I still technically am, and all my family served in the IDF.

          Can’t wait for apartheid to collapse.

        • fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          So bullshit. And more bullshit.

          Well, shit.

          You know in Canada they had so many Caribou on the ice and snow … it’s melting and these black layers of solid Caribou shit are appearing.

          They’re also finding 9,000 year old weapons designed to kill those Caribou.

          Cool stuff. Anthropology.

          I guarantee you. Palestinians will end with less evidence for their existence.

      • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
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        3 days ago

        Only if you internalize the racist premise that freedom in a region can only be achieved by expelling all other ethnic groups. The slogan is a rorschach test; it reveals the ideology of the interpreter. If you interpret “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” as genocidal it demonstrates that you don’t believe Palestinians and Israelis can coexist as equals.

        • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
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          3 days ago

          I really like how you’ve phrased this here — I think I’m going to end up borrowing aspects of your explanation to use myself. The person you’re replying to in this thread seems too entrenched in their opinion to hear the point you’re making here, but I not too infrequently find myself trying to explain the nuance of this phrase to people who are pro-palestinian liberation, but unsure about this particular slogan because they (quite reasonably) don’t want to inadvertently respond to a genocide with pro-genocide.

          I’ve usually had good success in explaining why “from the river to the sea” isn’t inherently a pro-genocide slogan, but I feel like your explanation will help me to do this more effectively in future.

        • Damorte@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          You can make up whatever kind of bullshit defense for genocidal slogans as you want and deflect this to be an issue of the interpreter. The reality of course is that the slogan means literally what the people using it has said several times that they want to do - drive the enemies out to of the levant and in to the sea i.e genocide.

          Palestinians and Israeli estates demonstratably can not co exist, they have tried for well over a hundred years now and they just keep murdering each other.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            The Zionist state cannot coexist with anyone. it is the genocidal state. calling against “From the river to the sea” is the call for genocide.

            but from your point of view, resisting a genocide is as bad as conducting one. so your opinion is invalid.

              • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                it’s been almost a century of Zionists trying to eradicate Palestine, yet it’s still there.

                you’re the idiot who treats this as a sports match.

                it’s a settler colonial state conducting a genocide against the natives. and you’re understanding is that natives not wanting to die are as bad as those monsters killing them?

              • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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                3 days ago

                The Palestinian state famously in existence in the last 100+ years and famously expelling and persecuting their Jewish population.

                Using light sabres and expeliarmus spells, while lead by the Dovahkiin Nazgûl, Indiana Jones and Drizzt.

                When you both-sides genocide, at least get your fucking facts straight.

                • Damorte@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  Are you suggesting that the official political position of the palestinian leadership is not to ethnically cleanse palestine?

                  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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                    3 days ago

                    Are you suggesting that the official political position of the palestinian leadership is not to ethnically cleanse palestine?

                    YES.

                    The PLO/Palestinian Authority accepted the two state solution in 1988 and signed the Oslo accords in 1993. Hamas accepted the 1967 borders in its 2017 charter.

                    That’s the official position of both entities that can lay claim to the word “Palestinian leadership”.

                    So what the actual fuck are you talking about?

                    PS. The Knesset voted in 2024 to formally oppose any Palestinian state. So there’s your formal positions of your “both sides”. Not politics and rhetoric, OFFICIAL POSITIONS.

              • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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                3 days ago

                You’re losing and you know it, your shithole ethnostate is living on borrowed time

      • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        "being free"in reference of an illegal occupation.

        THAT’S A CALL FOR GENOCIDE!!!

        did freeing concentration camps after WW2 count as a genocide?

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I mean, there’s really only one way to reasonably achieve that and it’s the one that Israel chose to do first.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Israel can just expand the right of return and apartheid will be over. the whole war and conflict would be over and it’ll being a reconstruction period where those responsible, should face justice for their crimes.

            we are getting violent resistance movements, because those who are lawful were banned, and those who were peaceful got executed.

        • Damorte@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          BEIng fReE from… omg stfu we all know exactly what it means. Its a call for the cleansing of the lands of the eternal enemy, whether its said by israelies or by palestinians. Its absolutely insane that there are people who defend genocidal slogans.

          • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            lol, you have never talked to any Palestinians?

            When apartheid ended in south Africa, did it end with all the white people being executed?

            they want the right of return. they want equal rights. and definitely, some genociders belong in jail.

            • ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              I don’t know that the South African model was ever possible in Israel, the government is far more entrenched, it is more like trying to usurp the American or Australian government than any other colonialist government.

              In SA they also had a 9:1 ratio advantage, the rest of the world’s governments were pressuring with trade embargoes and it was still incredibly difficult to get any movement.

              But as an example, truth and reconciliation would be an amazing thing to see in this context. Maybe one day.

              • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                as soon as US support ends (dems need to pay attention if they ever want to win an election again), All international support for Israel will end. and it’ll become a pariah state, full of embargoes and sanctions. it’ll collapse by itself.

          • MonkRome@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            Instead of getting angry you could research what that slogan means to different groups. For nearly every group that slogan currently means freedom for everyone from the river to the sea. Most accounts of early use meaning freedom for Palestine not just from Israel, but from Jordan and Egypt as well. The one group that used it in a mostly genocidal undertone was the PLO in the 1960’s who believed it meant returning the whole region to Palestinian rule, and ‘removing’ all people that immigrated in the last hundred years. As with most things it requires nuance. It can mean something bad, but these days most people use it to mean freedom. Intentionally taking it to mean something other than how people mean to use it seems disingenuous.