Over 113,000 people crossed the border between Russia and Georgia in just one week, at a time when rumors of a new mobilization are increasing. The Kremlin denies preparing such a measure, but recruitment is becoming more aggressive, and many Russians prefer to leave the country ahead of the parliamentary elections in September.
Traffic through the Verhni Lars border crossing, the main land route between the two countries, has increased significantly in the second half of August. According to Russian authorities, over 20,000 people crossed the border on some days.
In total, over 33,000 vehicles and 113,000 people crossed the border in just one week, writes Politico.
The number is reminiscent of the chaos in the fall of 2022 when Vladimir Putin announced the „partial” mobilization of 300,000 reservists. Over 100,000 Russians entered Georgia in just a few days, and hundreds of thousands fled to Armenia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, or other destinations.
This time there is no official mobilization order yet. That is precisely the difference: people are no longer waiting for the Kremlin’s announcement but are trying to leave preve
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Rumors point to the period after the elections for the State Duma, scheduled between September 18 and 20, as the moment when the Kremlin could announce a new call to arms.
At the beginning of August, the Russian Supreme Court excluded the federal list of the Yabloko party from the elections, the only party that was trying to participate with an explicit anti-war program.
Ukraine claims that Vladimir Putin aims to bring hundreds of thousands more people into the army. President Volodymyr Zelensky stated that Russia intends to recruit 300,000 soldiers after the September elections and another 300,000 next year.
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Official denials have not dispelled fears, especially after human rights organizations reported an intensification of forced recruitment.
In several regions of Russia, police and military recruiters have reportedly started picking up men from the streets, workplaces, or even from their homes. They are taken to recruitment centers and pressured to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense.
„It has turned into a manhunt,” described human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. According to him, the methods used include deception, blackmail, violence, and threats.
Recruiters target vulnerable individuals, such as men with debts, suspects in criminal cases, detainees, students with problems, or people who can be easily coerced. There are also cases where conscripts have allegedly been forced to sign contracts to be sent to Ukraine.
In the city of Omsk, a 31-year-old man was reportedly detained for drinking beer in the street and taken directly to a military selection center, where he was pressured to enlist. In the Penza region, locals reported that men are taken from the streets or searched from door to door.
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The system is starting to show signs that it can no longer cover the losses on the front. According to Western officials cited by The Guardian, Russia loses about 6,000 more troops each month than it can recruit, despite bringing in almost 1,000 people into the army daily.
A new mobilization would be risky for Putin. The one in September 2022 sparked protests in several regions, a massive exodus of the active population, and a decline in trust in authorities. The departure of a large number of specialists also affected the economy, already facing a labor shortage.
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If I were Georgia, I wouldn’t be accepting them. Firstly because protecting groups of “ethnic Russians” (Russians, people of Russian descent, Russian speakers, etc) is one of the main pretexts Russia uses in it’s war of expansion. And secondly because Russia attacked Georgia in 2008, has been occupying part of the country since then, and keeps edging the “border” further into Georgia’s territory.
I was just in Georgia (tourist), and people are rejecting of Russia their, but an estimated 20% of Georgia is still under Russian control, and people are scared after the 2008 Russian Georgian war.
The current Georgian government is pro-Russian. They will allow the fleeing Russians in and possibly use them to further divide their own country.
Any pro-Russian governments in any country don’t care what happens to their own country as long as they line their own pockets.
So Russians shouldn’t be allowed to flee, but rather stay inside Russia until the state will mobilize them? That’s a good way of prolonging the war. We should welcome everyone that does not want to fight for Putin.
right… and you tell the difference how ? when they assemble a commando force and attack whatever country from inside ?
Sorry I ended up writing a lot.
I looked this up the other day and from what I could find from a brief Google search experts cant seem to agree what the best solution is.
Some site exactly what the person you were replying to mentioned. That Russia uses it as a method to try and take over more countries. But other experts also agree that removal of any possible pawns from a pointless war would ensure that it could end sooner and with less bloodshed.
It said currently there are a number of organizations trying to help people sent to fight escape the war and surrender without having to lose their lives. Theres also organizations trying to help people flee the country to avoid the war entirely. It feels like they’re stuck trying to avoid their government and also stuck because most places do not want them.
I also had come across a youtube channel last year sometime where a Russian man who had left Russia explained why many of us make the wrong assumptions about Russian people and what we think they would do or how they would act.
Long story short his explanation was that Russian people are in a state of constant oppression and trauma whether they realize it or not and that their entire society is based around bribery and what you can provide for someone.
The explanations really opened my eyes to the scale of the issue. Not only do you have a massive population, but most are living under completely different rules with a very different deck of cards than the rest of the world. When you have adults who have lived under such conditions their entire lives I imagine it also makes it difficult to move and integrate into a different society. I feel badly for all of them really. Its just such a massive scale of people, inhave no idea of how to even approach the issue. I would like to assume most of the people fleeing are doing so because they do not believe in mindless bloodshed. Its just super unfortunate
Yes. I mostly agree
The western narrative mostly is that Russia is an authorization state where a few oligarchs with Putin at the top controll the main state affairs. I agree completel, but this then obviously means that a random russian is not in control of anything, they are just pawns.
However most Western countries see all Russians as one unified evil block of orcs, and therefore don’t help any Russians at all in fleeing the country.
But this is plain stupid. Any man leaving Russia is one less potential forced soldier.
Don’t forget that emigrating russians are used as a pretext for invasion. Being a country bordering russia with a significant russian population is dangerous.
If you don’t want to accept and help people running away from forced military conscription you are bad yourself.
They already took in a lot of Russian refugees in 2022 and it caused a housing crisis, so I don’t know that it will be a fun or easy time for the new refugees.
Generally, it is not a fun time being a Russian refugee these days. And before you say “good”, remember that among the Russian refugees are a lot of people who disagree with their country’s politics, were against the war from day one and there are also persecuted groups like LGBT people in the mix, who have fled to live a normal life elsewhere.
However, their Russian passports have basically landed them in purgatory and due to the rules in many European countries and a new established law in Russia where people who are deemed traitors of the Russian state will no longer be able to renew their Russian passports - many, many, maaaany Russian refugees are facing a reality where they might end up stateless. This can bar them from owning a bankaccount and put their ability to earn a living and have a roof over their heads in jeopardy.
It’s never fun to be a refugee, but in this day and age, it is hell to be a Russian refugee inside of Europe. I don’t see a lot of people talking about what Russian refugees have been facing since Putin sent missiles against Kyiv, but it is a genuine Kafkaesk nightmare for a lot of them.
As for Georgia, they have, from what I remember, already voiced dissatisfaction with the number of Russian refugees and how it messed up the housing market. I don’t know what they’re gonna do now, but I could imagine that many Georgians’ patience are wearing thin and the new batch of refugees may not recieve as warm a welcome as they did in 22. I could be wrong, though.
There’s also many russian “refugees” that support war and Putin, but won’t go fighting to the front line. It’s not like they all flee from Russia because they are against the war.
Sure, but it’s not all of them who are pro putins war. I think that is important to remember.
That is already a big problem due to sanctions.
True. It’s going to get worse.
But I guess according to people in this thread, that that is all good and fair because Russians aren’t human or something. I fucking hate Lemmy sometimes. It’s no differnet talking to people here than it is talking to extreme right wingers who want all the people they don’t like to suffer and die because of where or how they were born.
They could have tried to do something with their own cuntry, dunno something that involves less paper airplanes and going out with white flowers and more removing their leadership (but ofc they didn’t because they are the same m*scovians and actually supported their imperial ambitions before its their turn going into meatcube).
That’s a very simplistic and uninformed way of looking at the situation. There have been multiple attempts to transition Russia into a modern democracy. Navalny gave his life to try and enact change and the state murdered him. Now the only party that was against the war in Ukraine have been banned from partaking in the election because they were beginning to pose a true threat to putins borderline dictatorship.
Russians are angry with putin and more and more have started to voice their dissatisfaction with his leadership, which hasn’t happened before.
But if your keyboard warrior point is that the russian people should all die to kick putin off the throne, then you are way too naive and ignorant about how Russia is being run and has being run for centuries. It has never been a true democracy and there have always been extreme corruption at the top. The people have been systematically groomed into a state of fear and hopelessness for generations.
If it was that easy to topple a corrupt government, then Americans would have kicked Trump out of office last year, but that didn’t happen. And Americans have a much easier, freer and more privileged life than Russians. If they can’t mobilize and stop trump, then what makes you think that Russians can mobilize and stop putin? They barely have enough money for survival a lot of the time. I don’t think you realize just how poor the average Russian is. They barely have shit and that is by design. Keep them hungry and wanting. That makes them less eager to go against the state, which is prone to have people disappear either permanently or for months at the time for protesting or playing songs.
are you Russian ?
i have a Russian acquaintance who lives in Germany, she supports Putin ffs and says the Russian people will never give up.
No I’m not.
All I’m saying is that not all Russians are pro putin and some of the people who have fled are actually very much against everything happening and are still paying the price for the Z degenerecy.
Is it impossible to comprehend that a country of millions of people may not all be evil putin-fans?
That a pretty big number of them actually want a change and have tried to fight for that change, but they can’t because they live under an authoritarian dictatorship?
And maybe your friend is talking about the people she knows, but that is not all Russians.
If it was, putin would not feel the need to remove Yabloko from the upcoming election, the only anti war party in Russia that has recieved massive support recently and was starting to pose a genuine threat to putin.
But no no I guess all Russians just want war and just want Ukrainians to be killed. Ignore the facts and pretend that the world is black and white. That’s easier.
Did you know that all those people are raised on the idea that there was dictatorship in ruzzia and then people stood up and there was the great October revolution?
The reason they can’t do anything is because things are not that bad. For them.
There’s a nuance in your argument.
You’re right, ruzzia is a terrible oppressive state and doing something against it is super dangerous and difficult.
But there’s a catch. See, a 100k of them just crossed into Georgia. By all means their life is not going to be the best of roses.
But they didn’t do it in 2022 when their cuntry openly invaded Ukraine.
They didn’t do it in 2014 when their cuntry covertly invaded Ukraine.
They did now, when their own wellbeing is under danger.
In '22 I had a chat with a lady I knew that was happy that Crimea returned to ruzzia in '14. She said she was against the war and described the situation as “uncomfortable”.
You’re right there are plenty of “good” russians among those who just left. But they didn’t leave because they are against the war. They’ve left because their life is in danger of becoming uncomfortable. Which means that until now it was, you guessed it, comfortable. You’re right, maybe not luxurious and definitely not free, but it was good enough.
When “Mr Nobody against pootin” came out and started winning prizes, Ukrainians were really pissed. Because the message of that piece is exactly what you’re saying - poor good russians can do nothing because of the evil pootin. The problem is that when it came out Ukraine already killed a million of poor good russians and now the evil poo wants to conscript more to bring that to two million.
Uncomfortable. Shift your butt a little to reduce the discomfort.
I don’t understand why you feel the need to be the hostile, but I guess it’s easy to discredit an entire nation of people and dehumanize them because it makes you feel more comfortable to do so.
I have no doubt that there are a good portion of Russians who are Z and completely brain dead and a waste of space, but it is not all of them and while I am completely supportive of Ukraine defending themselves and I think it is a good thing they are bombing factories in Russia to put pressure on them there, I simply refuse to dehumanize every single Russian and act like they deserve to die. If I did that I’d be no different than the Z people who act like every Ukrainian is a nazi and deserves to die.
Entire nation? Merely the grand majority of it.
See, after the ww2 there was a debate whether there’s something special about Germans that made them do what they did. Everybody knew that the fanatical and sadistical part was a very small minority and it wasn’t Hitler who worked in the concentration camps or Gestapo. It wasn’t Himmler who worked in factories or fought in the army.
It was normal everyday people who lived, laughed, laughed and that.
Their kind of excuse was lack of information.
What is the excuse for the good russians that enlist to the army, work in factories making drones or simply live their life and pay their taxes? Apathy that was cultivated over the decades?
Apparently, a serious number of them found the motivation to move to Georgia now that the war that they maybe don’t approve can actually affect them.
And I’m sure massive majority of them are loveliest of people, they have friends, parents they take care of, children. And they grumbled in their kitchens that this war is a waste of life in the evenings. And until today, in the mornings they went to their jobs that directly or indirectly supported the war. Because, you know, it’s war and terrible, but it’s bad pootin, it’s not them.
Am I hostile? I think I am. And I’m not even in Ukraine, I just have family there and for 4 years now I hear from them of what was bombed, how their life is now shaped by war. What I don’t hear from them is how bad it is for the poor good russians that don’t have it easy.
Am I hostile? Probably. But I think it’s kind of hostility of a doctor to a cancer.
m*scovian imperialist, nothing wrong with m*scovites killing each other.
tough, I don’t care about their history, for me it doesn’t exist like ours doesn’t exist for them, they’ve chosen their own path and walked it from the start of this century. My people died and die right now first to overthrow m*scovian “president” (and I for a change wasn’t behind keyboard at the time) and now to kill invaders (and I’m directly responsible that they can do it good enough given our constraints, at least in my own small unit 🙃). They could have overthrown their own creature and they choose not to because it could have ended with jail, tough.
Okay, you’re clearly not able to have an adult conversation. Bye.
I assume it was a typo, but I like using cuntry for Russia.
It wasn’t
Russia arguably can manufacture any pretext to invade. Like the Nazi rhetoric.
Right, it wasn’t “protecting Russians” in Africa or Syria but still killed and bombed people left and right.
That is their go to pre text but it means shit if you can’t mobilize an armed force to do the invasion. And well Russia is showing it can’t maintain it’s invasion of Ukraine, so imagine how much self inflicted damage would happen if now Invading Georgia would be on top of it.