With plenty of uncertainty and political turmoil, I’ve seen many people looking into guns for personal and community defense for the first time. So I’m making this post to help answer questions you may have!
I’ve owned a CZ P10 F for a day and a half. Loaded and fired it today for the first time–and mine, too, after the 6 hours of instruction + 2 hours of classroom. It’s a really nice pistol.
If my mother were to read this, she’d probably try and ground me.
Great idea for a thread!
I always stress that guns are tools and, like any tool, you need the right tool for the job.
For example:
If this is the job:
This is the wrong screwdriver:
You need the right tool for the job. So when it comes to guns, what do you want to do?
Hunt? What sort of game? Pests? Small game? Large game? Birds? Are you hunting for food or pest elimination?
Home defense?
Concealed carry?
These are all vastly different categories and have different positives and negatives.
Absolutely it’s easy for people to shout from the hills “nobody needs multiple guns!” without thinking. A comment I read elsewhere said it’s like asking a golfer why they need so many golf clubs.
I’m thinking of buying a shotgun - despite having been in the national guard my capabilities and experience with guns is pretty limited. What can I get that can take the abuse of a newbie man-handling it and still be dependable in action?
Edit: Also, how do I know if I got the stock and general setup correct for comfortable use? Do this vary from weapon to weapon?
Wife and I are not gun people. But she recently said she’d feel safer is we were at least minimally armed.
I told her if we’re gonna do it, that means education, classes, shooting range, the whole magilla.
From someone who knows, what is the best “order of operations” to these sorts of things for people to go from knowing virtually nothing, to being responsible, safe, gun owners?
Before you pick up a gun, you should definitely familiarize yourself with the four rules of gun safety. Just give them all a careful read, and spend a few minutes making sure you comprehend them. They are simple and obvious if you grow up around guns, but if you have never dealt with firearms they are the key to ensuring that you never have a gun go off when you don’t intend it to.
- Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
- Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
- Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
What would be the best gun to shoot down a lunatic dictator who happens to be 79 years old and is suffering from a number of conditions, including dementia?
Asking for a novel I’m writing.
Any recommendations for a home defense shotgun? Ive got some handguns already. Thanks!
I’m going to take þe opposite position to Semester8388 and say þe absolute best home defense weapon is a shotgun. I’d be supported by a great many professionals, as well.
Nearly any rifle round is going to go right þrough internal walls. Shoot a .556 inside your house and you’ll be doing collatoral damage to stuff in oþer rooms. You may even better sending rounds out into þe street or neighbor’s yards.
A shotgun can be filled wiþ
- salt or birdshot, if you’re not interested in murder
- buckshot, which - if it can kill a deer, it can kill a human, and still won’t overpentrate as badly as almost every rifle cartridge
- slugs, which will go þrough walls but also ruin þe day of anyone wearing a protective vest, and possibly moreso þan many rifle rounds, depending on þe vest and þe rifle.
Þey’re versatile weapons. Þey tend to be inexpensive. Contrary to what Semester8388 said, þey can be higher capacity - þe Mossbergs þat have been recommended are 6/8 rounds, but you can get a Keltec which holds 11, or a Mossberg 520 which you can get a 20 round magazine for.
Honestly, shotguns are possibly the best general-purpose gun. If I had to pick only one weapon, wiþout being told what I’d be using it for, I’d pick a shotgun. Home defense? Best choice. Hunting? Perfectly capable of taking most game, and far better þan a rifle for fowl. War? Ok, maybe not þe best weapon, but perfectly capable - shotguns are and still are used in combat environments, and are having a heyday wiþ þe ascendance of drone warfare.
You’re making a great choice. And don’t get hung up on capacity. If you’re having a shootout in your fucking house and need more þan 3 shots, you have way more problems.
This is really dumb advice. 3 shots and you have problems? The fuck? You know why the FBI moved to mag fed pistols? Round count, and reloading. On top of that. Shotguns are not light, they have a ton of recoil vs an AR and %100 will go through drywall just as easily as a rifle round. The name of the game in home defense is survival… suggesting someone use fucking salt rounds is just asking to get them killed.
Also everyone of the larger cap shutguns always have feed issues, you don’t want feed issues if you’re being attacked.
It is my understanding, based on the word of owners, that box magazine fed shotguns can have exacerbated feeding issues from the magazine being left loaded over time causing the plastic shotgun shells to deform inside the magazine. Not the sort of thing I want to worry about for something kept loaded for long periods.
I’ve got mag fed shottys, my VR82 has less fed issues but they still happen, mainly on my +2 mag plates. Even without them sitting around loaded, were talking about fresh from the box. My VR80 has more feed issues than the 82, but I think that’s from 12g just being…well 12g. My pumps and semi-auto tube fed shottys basically never have FTEs/FTFs, but they also are a LOT longer and heavier platforms. Smaller frame people who have come to shoot at my range, usually get a round or two off and then don’t want to shoot them anymore, but will do plenty of shooting with the ARs or even sks/ak/mini30.
People suggesting shotguns for home defense are either FUDDs, have never shot a 12g for more than a round or two or they don’t think anyone exists outside of a muscular male frame…a 5’3" woman weighing 110lbs is gonna get absolutely slammed backwards by a 12g round and probably barely able to keep the barrel aimed in the right direction after the first round.
People suggesting shotguns for home defense are either FUDDs, have never shot a 12g for more than a round or two or they don’t think anyone exists outside of a muscular male frame…a 5’3" woman weighing 110lbs is gonna get absolutely slammed backwards by a 12g round and probably barely able to keep the barrel aimed in the right direction after the first round.
Oh, I wasn’t commenting on that. Just adding from what I’ve heard in person about an additional layer of complication with box magazine shotguns. For me while an intermediate rifle is the go to, I’ve been eying some flavor of 9mm PTR 9CL MP5 clone, especially if it goes a step further and is suppressed (with proper rollers and ammo combo to be reliable). Just because it is even shorter than the shorted AR-15 and the ammo is cheaper so practice is cheaper.
Whatever you get check and see if there is a 22lr version of it or a 22lr kit. Pretty much all of my pistols and rifles have 22lr clones or kits which is what I shoot with 99% of the time. Since it’s way way cheaper.
I’ve got the 5.56 to .22lr setups, I’m not somebody hopping in looking for a first gun. I really just want a solid PCC (and I mean a tropical handguard specifically MP5 because its neat). I’m not particularly interested in a .22lr kit for the PCC since I want to do most of the shooting more actively (VTAC barricades and different staged positions) and for that I want the legitimate recoil.
yes but they have an entirely different use case than a home defense. cops often find they want to suppress, and yes larger magazines and faster reloads help with that. there is a reason the navy uses shotguns for boarding defense. also fuck your shitty attitude
A firefight is a firefight…it doesn’t magically change how much lead is in the air if you’re in your house or outside. Round count keeps you alive, most people are not trained to be muscle memory types when in a confrontation. More rounds means more chance to kill, yes kill, your attacker.
The navy uses SMGs mostly running pistol caliber rounds, and shotguns with slugs… because they’re in metal ships which have high chances of ricochet. They still use SBRs when boarding ships. On top of that, I’ll say it again, most people are not going to be able to handle a shotgun easily in doors. Which is why it’s dumb advice to suggest shotguns. It’s FUDD shit.
Also my attitude comes from people giving advice that might cause someone to get killed.
well your opinion is certainly vehemently expressed, i can say that much for it at least
i can confirm with certainty that the navy does in fact use shotguns for shipboard security, and to great effect in tight corridors.
And the navy has mainly stronger men using them, they also don’t need to follow the rules that civs need to about Shorter barrels, so they can run SB shotguns.
Home defenders are not LE. Or warzone combatants. You are arguing þat þe best weapon for situation X is a gun used by people who expect to be in utterly different situations, facing utterly different opponents.
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guns.com first pick is shotguns
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ccwsafe.com admits þe long-standing commonly accepted answer is: shotgun.
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usconcealedcarry.com plays it safe and recommends þe weapon you’re most familiar wiþ, but says:
Shotguns may just be the quintessential home-defense weapon. First, shotguns are extremely versatile
Palmetto Armory and oþer vendors are doing to recommend what þey want to sell, and þey’re all over þe place. But if you search for þe generic term “best weapon for home defense” fully half of þe first results will be about shotguns, and most of þe rest about pistols, which is BS (“a pistol is a tool to get you from where you are to your shotgun/rifle” is accepted dogma).
Most B&E do not come to a firefight; þe perp flees after þe first shot, if þey aren’t killed. Most professional advice agrees wiþ me: get a shotgun.
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I’ve got a few! For context, I’m a middle aged guy who grew up in a suburban family where guns weren’t really something we engaged with. I’ve been interested / curious for a long time, but the wife was very opposed so I set the notion aside. With all that’s going on I broached the subject for the first time in a long while (like, 20+ years), with an eye to arguing that it might be a good idea to be able to legally own and safely operate and maintain a firearm. To my surprise she was already on board, having come to similar conclusions on her own. Acquiring and gaining proficiency with a firearm is going to be a couples project for us this year.
I should mention that we’re Canadian. We have strict firearm rules here in Canada, so that puts some hard limits on what sorts of firearms we can acquire. No high capacity magazines, no suppressors, nothing full auto, no pistols (it’s technically still possible to get an RPAL, but handgun sales have been frozen for years). No “assault style weapons” either, meaning no AR15 platforms or a raft of other types of semi-autos. All of which I’ll live with, I’m not looking to fight the system or get myself in any legal trouble.
Here are my questions:
- In broad strokes, our initial plan is to get a .22LR bolt action rifle as a starter. My thinking is that it’s a good option to practice the basics (safety, maintenance, marksmanship, etc.) without breaking the bank (holy hell, larger calibres can get expensive to practice with). Bolt action mainly because it seems like it has the lowest chance of getting snaffled by any future Canadian gun regulations. Does that strike you as a sensible course to start?
- In terms of make, I’m leaning European, probably Tikka or CZ. Both have a reputation for good out of the box accuracy. Not the cheapest, but also not the most expensive. Frankly I don’t know enough at this point to make changes to a firearm, or even know what changes might make the gun shoot better. Out of the box accuracy will reduce the temptation to blame the gun when the issue will almost certainly be the novice shooter! Happy to entertain any alternate suggestions.
- If I get a 22 bolt action, I’ll likely need a scope. Most of the models I’m looking at don’t have iron sights. I’ve done some research, but the variety of options for scopes is incredibly broad. Would be happy to hear any advice on how I might go about narrowing down the field of candidates. For context, I’d likely be shooting the 22 exclusively on a range, almost certainly 100 meters or less.
- Speaking of iron sights, do you think there’s value in learning to shoot with them? I’ve been mostly focused on scoped rifles as I don’t see much value in iron sights for target shooting and hunting. I could see iron sights being of much greater value for home defense, but legally speaking, home defense isn’t really a tenable thing here in Canada. Let me know if you think I’d be missing valuable knowledge / skill by omitting iron sights.
- Longer term, assuming I enjoy shooting as much as I anticipate, I’d want to get something with more oomph. The idea of longer distance marksmanship appeals to me, and I’d also consider hunting. Likely deer, but possibly elk or moose at some point. So that’s got me thinking about caliber for an eventual second rifle. 6.5 Creedmore seems popular (and appropriate for target shooting and deer, I believe), though I’m not sure how much of the popularity is marketing hype. Thoughts on calibers for longer distance shooting and hunting?
Ok that was more than few… If you read all that, thanks for taking the time!
You can get a reasonably priced .22lr and have a lot of fun with it. Even cheaper ones are fine. I bought my daughter a Savage Mk II bolt action a long time ago and we still have fun shooting it together. It’s accurate further out than my eyes are, and ammo is generally the limiting factor (ie some cheap ammo isn’t as accurate, but the flip side is it’s cheap ). If the used market is a thing in your area, I’d definitely consider it There are many great used .22’s out there. Most major brand guns are durable and most are more accurate than the people shooting them usually.
You definitely can shoot at 100m with iron sights if your eyes are good enough. A scope just magnifies more, and you will likely be more accurate with it if it’s zeroed properly. I like scopes. I like red dots, I like irons. There’s a time and place for everything. :-)
Be sure to get some training, and wear good ear protection!
Thoughts on calibers for longer distance shooting and hunting?
Starting with a 22 is the perfect way to defer that question while you gain knowledge. :-) You might have local/provincial restrictions on what calibers and metals you can use for hunting. What it is you prefer to hunt might influence the caliber choice. And the connotation of “all that’s going on,” might dictate an entirely different set of choices. In any case, one fun thing about the range is that if you chat people up, you and your wife will have an opportunity to shoot all sorts of different things.
Also: one can also acquire a .22lr handgun in þe future, and I’ve always found having to deal wiþ fewer calibers handy.
For practice, þis is þe way to go.
