You will own nothing and be happy about it.
I’ll of course hold on to my current laptop for as long as it lasts, but a Framework will be up next.
I feel like an absolute idiot for ever being anti-laptop. I got a framework and my PC immediately became a server. One of the best investments I have ever made.
No, he actually said “There is a very real scenario in which personal computing as we know it is dead.”
If that scenario comes true I will change careers from Computer Science and become either a blacksmith or a woodworker. I am entirely serious.
There is a very real scenario in whichpersonal computing as we know it is deadI guess that’s technically what he said, just not all of it. 🙄
So essentially contextomy.
Welcome to headlines lying to your face
There has been a spitfire of such deceivingly titled articles being posted here within the past couple of days.
Didn’t Apple just launch a $600 laptop?
Edit: everyone made a bunch of really great points. Mine was more about addressing the affordability angle of a dying Personal Computing.
can it run Linux?
Can it? Yes.
Will it? Almost certainly.
Is there something you can install right now? No.
Officially supports 3 distros and supports more with community support.
I’m loving my framework 13, and have tried the following distro on it: Ubuntu (24.04-25.10) Fedora Bazzite Debian Pop OS Cachy OS NixOS Mint
Debian was a pain to get the firmware updated on, Ubuntu was super easy, but left because the potential spyware they may be putting on soon and the ID laws, Poo OS was one of the early ones and was nice but not for me, Bazzite was too controlled, but great for gaming, Cachy OS is something I will go back to eventually, Nix was nice but need more time with that package manager to figure out the best way to set it up my way, and mint was my first distro on there.
It has indeed. One with 8GB RAM, not upgradable. Strictly limited to MacOS, no Linux no nothing.
Don’t get me wrong, it is a fantastic offer but decisively non-modular and non upgradeable and no freedom of operating system choice. Framework’s laptop’s are the opposite, they are modular, upgradeable and easily repairable, with replacement parts being sold at a fair price.
The new Apple Neo has come a long way with a relatively clean interior and decently easy battery replacement procedure. That is less their own doing though and more them preparing for new EU legislation mandating exactly that.
Don’t get me wrong, it is a fantastic offer but decisively non-modular and non upgradeable and no freedom of operating system choice.
Yeah, it’s the complete opposite of what Apple II was: the first truly serviceable personal computer with a lot of DIY support and extensibility.
One with 8GB RAM, not upgradable. Strictly limited to MacOS, no Linux no nothing.
Which, in the history of computing devices, certainly is nothing new. Apple, and others, has been doing this pretty much forever.
Oh, then I must have imagined the Mac I used years back with Windows just a false memory imprint I suppose. I was not saying that all of the above is a deal braker for everyone but it is definitely a deal breaker for some. Certainly if you want to use Linux, the Neo is simply not an option at all. Most Windows laptops are though and especially Framework laptops are very much so.
The fact that Apple doesn’t really want you to use their stuff with other systems doesn’t mean that you absolutely cannot do so. I don’t know what gave you that absurd idea.
And even the relatively generic PC computers we have nowadays are designed to be quite hostile to anything that isn’t Windows, even though we manage to work around it in most cases.
Oh man. I began using Linux a little over a year ago by installing Ubuntu (then switching to Mint) on old Macs–a 2011 iMac and a 2015 MacBook Pro. The MacBook had a logic board failure and I decided to grab a super cheap Lenovo IdeaPad from Costco a few months back. Getting a bootable USB for the first Mac was really the only challenge I ever had, otherwise the installs were extremely straightforward (especially when I went to Mint). But for the IdeaPad (which has a CoPilot key on the keyboard and was “optimized for Windows 11”), while there weren’t any real gymnastics involved, the process of removing Windows 11 took substantially longer than MacOS and I got the feeling that it was all the “AI” nonsense trying to avoid being deleted. It was clear that this laptop did NOT want something other than Windows on it.
Of course I was successful. And I managed to remap that Copilot key to bring up the Linux Mint menu when I hit it, as an extra layer of dominance.
x86 iMacs, yes. I was not talking about them. I was talking about Apple Silicon. I am not sure what makes removing Windows 11 so difficult, can’t you simply install over it, the disk is being formatted before the installation anyway. And once Windows 11 is gone so is copilot.
That said, your mileage with laptops varies, regarding hardware support. Often touchpad support or whatever is making some fuss.
I wrote “Strictly limited to MacOS, no Linux no nothing.”
To which you responded “Which, in the history of computing devices, certainly is nothing new. Apple, and others, has been doing this pretty much forever.”
So unless you did not articulate yourself clearly, that means exactly that you absolutely cannot do so. Which was false in the past. But for the Apple Neo it is largely true, unless you are talking about developing a solution yourself. There is nothing that works on it other than operating systems from Apple. If I am mistaken, please tell me which alternative OS does work on it.
On the other side, I have a Framework Desktop, simply because that was the only option for buying the Max 395+ on an ITX board, for my custom fanles PC project. I had zero problems installing off the mill Linux distros on it.
You can run Linux just fine on apple SOCs, multiple independent projects managed to run Linux on IPhones before. You do have to rewrite the device tree and all drivers, but that’s the case for all new hardware. People have done it before for the ARM chips in the apple silicons. (up to the M2 series at least)
The only real question is if the bootloader is unlockable or if the neo needs to be jailbroken like its the case with most iphones.
Its definetly not a good choice for Linux and it will take a few years even with the best case scenario, but its possible nonetheless.
I wouldn’t buy a Mac to install Linux on it for a number of reasons, but I assumed someone somewhere had tried to install Linux on Apple silicon and I was correct. Apparently, asahi works on it: https://www.linuxnest.com/how-to-install-linux-on-a-macbook-m1-m2-m3-intel-the-complete-2025-guide/
It sounds like limited support, and I honestly have no idea why someone would do this. I think a better path to even alternative silicon Linux (non-x86 stuff) would be buying some type of ARM.
They provided and updated Windows drivers for their hardware for more than a decade.
They did, I was not talking about the past though. I was talking about Apple Silicon.
Strictly limited to MacOS, no Linux no nothing.
You can run Linux on the ARM MacBooks.
No you can’t, not any Linux. Just a single one, Asahi Linux and that only on M1 and M2 nothing newer and that is not a flawless experience either and recommended only for those understanding the limitations.
But I wasn’t even talking about other MacBooks, I was talking about the Apple Neo and there not even Asahi Linux runs, at least I am not aware of any fork that would work. Correct me please if you know more.
I did some googling and it seems you are right, at least for now. I expect Linux support for ARM macs will continue to expand.
As far as I can tell it’s a limitation if moving from the more popular x86 to ARM with some other hardware related caveats. Importantly, the macs are aren’t locked from booting other OSes, its just the hardware support hasn’t caught up yet.
Not on M3 and newer. That means everything released in the last 2-3 years
There’s nothing magic about the M3 and newer machines stopping you from running Linux on them.
Asahi already has some early support for them.
screen replacement isn’t too crazy either on those which I do appreciate. the cost of parts is still high tho we’ll see if it comes down in the future
I haven’t checked in a while. Maybe I misremembered from Fairphone. There the replacement parts are perfectly reasonably priced and even replacing the screen is dead simple. As far as it comes to repairability Framework laptops are certainly great though, maybe prices are still not all the way there though.
For the grand majority of people having hardware that lasts longer is more important than hardware that can be repaired
If you think a repairable thing can’t last long or something that can last long cant be repairable then you’re mistaken
Why wouldn’t you put Asahi on it?
Pretty sure the problem is you can’t.
Of course you can, why can’t you?
Only M-series SoCs can run Asahi.
Did Apple lock a bootloader or something? A link would go a long way to helping others understand what you already seem to know
Proprietary hardware and nobody reverse engineered the drivers for graphics and all the proprietary shit.
They didn’t technically locked it down but they making sure that using an alternative operating system it’s a miserable experience
Here go to this page https://asahilinux.org/fedora/#device-support
Do you see the Neo on there? It’s an entirely different chip than the M-series so they don’t even have drivers for the SoC in the Neo
Is the bootloader locked like on iOS devices? If not, there’s probably a chance it can eventually run Asahi
No, but Asahi Linux works only for M1 and M2 as of now. They need to reverse engineer a lot and want to get it working there well enough before even attempting M3. The Apple Neo is neither of those, it is an A18 Pro. Entirely different SOC.
Probably eventually, so not right now. And it’s not a certainty though, M3 and 4 aren’t even fully supported they are missing GPU acceleration. Don’t buy a Neo today on the hope of running Asahi on it someday.
Go research it. It doesn’t work. Moron
I did, and nothing says you can’t?
Why did you get so angry you absolute unhinged weirdo? Why would this make you that upset?
I sincerely wish life is as kind to you as you are to others
Apple is part of the problem
You’ll need to be more specific.
Its $500 for students
Now, if only they considered not sponsoring nazis… https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/14/framework_linux_controversy/
I think people saying this is not a problem are downplaying the fact that framework actively decided to support a project with problematic political tendencies at highest role - allow me to be that unconcrete did not read through the entire thing. However I think looking at other manufacturers I see nothing comparable in it’s reach that is really a community focused manufacturer. Microsoft straight up supports trump, so do many of the others. I think running lenovo depends on these same programs (correct me if I’m wrong).
To;Dr: Maybe fascist? idk. But the others support same organisations. Don’t they?
Something about no ethical consumption under capitalism. Perfect is the enemy of good. I agree what they shouldn’t be supporting Nazis and that we need groups willing and able to counter the small selection of oligarch owned manufacturing systems.
Between Framework at least trying to build an open ecosystem, there are very very few other options out there. Yes they can probably do better, still they are effectively the only decent open option (for me at least) at a reasonable price and quality.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call them out though.
They’ve been called out. Boyhowdy have they been called out. You can’t mention “Framework” on Mastodon without someone chiming in to tell you about all this and try and shame you into not considering a Framework machine. I think they have been sufficiently called out.
Hyprland might have some toxic community issues but calling it the project of Nazis is outright disinformation. The guy behind Omarchy is also likely not a Nazi, he might be called right extreme through, certainly anti-Islam and anti-Immigration. Nothing of that bleeds into the Omarchy project which has really nothing to do with politics. Now the question is are you going to support an apolitical project that you like for its merits, if the key person behind it is far right, or do you not?
I can understand both positions but just supporting such a project, doesn’t make every supporter a right extreme, let alone a Nazi. That is hyperbole.
The guy behind Omarchy is also likely not a Nazi
He once said London is worse because it has fewer whites. He used some shitty noncommital dogwhistle phrase like “native British” or something like that, but the statistic he referred to (and actually referenced when saying that) was about the percentage of white Londoners. When this was pointed out to him, he didn’t go “oops, how embarrassing, let me adjust the statistics I referred to”, or “let me clarify my point” or anything like that. He just whined that he wasn’t allowed to have an opinion. Not what I’d expect from someone who said white nationalist stuff by accident.
So, is he a card carrying member of the early 20th century German National Socialist party? No. But I don’t think it’s overblown to call him a nazi.
This post has some more details:
https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem
That makes him a racist bad enough but does he also call for dictatorship or genocide? Because that is what Nazis did. If only the dictatorship applies to him, we can debate it at least if he fits the description Nazi.
But then, I find the guy horrible anyhow and I don’t care about Omarchy but like not everyone driving a Tesla is a right extreme, not everyone using Omarchy is one either.
That’s “otherwise it’s just sparkling fascism” level semantics.
It doesn’t hurt to be precise with words but maybe that’s just me. A racist is not necessarily trying to overthrow a democratic government, a fascist is.
You need to straighten out your definition of fascist. Hitler is a fascist. Take your favorite definition of fascist, like Ecco’s or whatever, and Hitler will satisfy it. He does fascism. His policies are militaristic, nationalistic, he enacts laws to suppress minorities, etc. Someone who votes for Hitler does none of those things, but they’re still a fascist by any sensible meaning of the word.
Today, there are fascists operating in our democratic systems. From the British National Party to Trump. Not all of them are actively overthrowing the systems they exist in. One such fascist is Tommy Robinson. DHH has expressed explicit support for Robinson and his white nationalist rallies.
You do not know DHH’s politics. You don’t know who he voted for. Nor do I. But we can make an educated guess based on his open white nationalism and his explicit support for fascists. If someone basically tells you “hi, I’m a fascist”, you believe them.
Also, I don’t know who you think you’re helping by playing these semantic games (based on shoddy definitions btw).
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You realize that “apolitical” is an extremely well-known nazi dog-whistle / pure apologetics these days, right? I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy framework, that’s your call to make, and my threshold-to-nazi is clearly different from yours, but I do think people should at least look at who they’re in bed with.
apolitical is also a word with a definition
Sure everything has a definition. Like antropsophy - doesn’t mean it makes sense.
IMO there is no such thing as “apolitical”. Organisations or projects where money or resources flow are automatically political. Because where are the resources or the money coming from?
So absolutely every commercial activity is “political”? What is the political nature of selling sheep cheese for example?
There is a political movement opposing the making and selling of sheep cheese: Veganism -> the ethical part of it is political.
How much do you pay the workers selling the cheese? -> political
How are you allowed to buy sheep? Online? In a package? Are you allowed to clone it? -> political
How many taxes do you pay - how much does “big sheep”? -> political
So while it mostly is not a political act of you to sell the sheep-cheese there are a lot of political questions surrounding the selling of it.
It can however also be a political act: selling sheep’s milk at a religious event that is strictly against sheep’s being milked by humans can be seen as a form of protest.
Veganism may be political, but to construe selling sheep cheese as a political statement against veganism is absurd.
To fight big cow dairy?
I always suspected the miniature rail operators in the local city park are proponents of big rail feeding already the youngest with pro-rail propaganda!
Definitions, or rather language, tend to change over time. Usually turning into their opposites. And nothing stops people, in this case right wingers, to abuse a term to hide their crap either. See “Evolution: Contoversy”. No,I’m sorry, just like “Hacker” has become a synonym for “Cracker” & “Black Hat”, so “apolitical” has become a fig leaf to “hide” right wing bullshit in plain sight
what do you buy instead?
Usually very old (more tenth than second-hand) Lenovo ThinkPads (And, yes, I am aware of IBMs involvement in Holocaust management via the Deutsche Hollerith-Maschienen AG), they tend to be ok for neat things like LibreBoot too. If I didn’t want to tinker with them myself I’d buy directly from https://minifree.org/ instead. Sure, they are oooooold, but I’m a programmer of the vim-persuasion, but not compiling horrible languages like C++, so I really don’t need much. That said: I am ok with people making their own decisions, following their own moral compass; I really just wanted to make sure that they are at least aware and can make an informed decision ;-)
Ok, please, go ahead, explain me the political dimension of any part of Omarchy. No, not the guy behind it, the Linux “distro”. I am listening.
And what exactly makes any leading figure of Hyprland an actual Nazi? Please elaborate with concrete arguments.
I do not agree with everything in that thread but I do agree on that part: every project or organisation that is involved in flow of money or resources(which dev-time is!) is automatically living in a political space.
There’s loads of articles out there about them,not my job to explain them to you. You may disagree with their conclusions, of course, but othes may draw conclusions from your behaviour, too. In this sense: plonk
I don’t know what you’re expecting debating with a .ml honestly.
I’ve seen the many forms in which human stupidity manifests, but Lemmy instance tribalism is absolutely one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen.
Yes warning someone that they are about to get their fingers bitten off by a user from one of the most disingenuous groups online is the stupidest things you’ve ever seen then you must live in at the CERN LHC and never go out.
Thinking the entirety of the third largest, oldest Lemmy instance is a cultural, political, or even behavioral monolith makes a room temperature IQ enviable. Clearly all 58k .ml users believe and behave similarly. Clearly.
Just writing this sarcastically managed to make me even stupider.
I’m going to reply one more time and then block because there is no point in debating.
The .ml instance (including hex and grad) is one of the most controlled instances. Anything that doesn’t align with support to authoritarian regime’s objectives is nearly immediately silenced and will probably get you a ban from the whole instance itself. There are countless examples on https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
I invite everyone reading this exchange to go there and make an opinion for themselves. The mods actions from .ml speak volumes just as the behaviour of their users (and brigading I can already see here).
Fuck tankies.
Sucks because I was strongly considering Framework for my next laptop. That said, it sounds like they may rethink their sponsorship approach with that bit at the end - they acknowledged the past issues with the Hyprland community but did due diligence, and they plan to involve the community more going forward.
May be empty promises but time will tell.
They’re literally just sponsoring one of the biggest wms out there, I don’t feel like that’s abt framework, rather then hyprland/vaxry
What’s the excuse for omarchy? It’s completely irrelevant.
I don’t like omarchy either, but for several months it was one of the biggest things bringing new users to linux
I rather doubt that… I wouldn’t even know it existed if framework hadn’t sponsored it.
I think it was bc it was a simple, easy way to get the cool part of linux ricing without much necessary knowledge of linux. But it was definitely huge for at least several months
what computing company hasn’t sponsored nazis?
its not a black and white decision
Tenuous at best.
Follow the money and see when it starts getting uncomfortable for you.
