Green leader in England and Wales calls ‘debates about words’ unhelpful and denies recent motion was controversial

I broadly agree with Zack Polanski here. I’m glad he’s taken a stance.

I’m not sure about “no state has the right to exist”, but whatever.

  • Funkt4st1c@lemmy.worldEnglish
    183·
    2 天前

    I had a hard time watching Falcon and Winter soldier because i agreed with the bad guys too much. Borders are dumb and exist to promote violence and nothing else.

    • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
      333·
      2 天前

      “borders are dumb”

      But you keep borders yourself. We all do.

      Why you doing something so dumb? Or, can I just climb into your bed and take a shit?

      • yeahiknow3@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        2 小时前

        A person is morally entitled to privacy in their own home. Whereas national borders seem convenient for exerting control over our environment, the problem arises when we keep people in or out for arbitrary reasons. That’s what the debate is about.

        I can keep people out of my home for arbitrary reasons because I have inalienable rights. But nation states have neither rights nor moral authority of any kind, unlike the individuals inside and outside their borders. Specifically, citizens have the right to interact with anyone (sans coercion), regardless of where they were born. This basic liberty is infringed when borders are closed.

      • just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        26·
        1 天前

        For pretty much the entireity of our existence, we didn’t have borders. The modren notion of borders is intrinsically linked with the nation state.

        And you are conflating borders with boundaries in your later sentence.

        • some_random_nick@lemmy.worldEnglish
          125·
          1 天前

          Disagreed. Animals have teritories, which are essentially borders. We just evolved the means to make them somewhat permanent.
          Doesn’t mean we have to keep it that way for the rest of our existance as a species.

          • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
            161·
            1 天前

            I can’t decide whether or not you actually believe that or you’re just being pseudo intellectual for the bit.

            In nature animals have territories but it’s extremely common for those two shift and flow with the seasons.

            But also animals don’t have internal plumbing or electricity yet we have those things, so I don’t really see why “what animals do” as being particularly relevant.

            • some_random_nick@lemmy.worldEnglish
              26·
              22 小时前

              OP stated:

              For pretty much the entireity of our existence, we didn’t have borders. […]

              Please point me towards a part of our existance where we didn’t have any types of borders. I deliberatly went all the way back to our beginnings as a species to point out that even then borders existed in some form.

              As for the “shift and flow” part, I clearly stated:

              […] We just evolved the means to make them somewhat permanent. […]

              So, what exaclty is there pseudo-intellectual in my statement?

              Edit: Here is a source to back up my claims.
              Alexander C. Diener, Joshua Hagen. Borders: a very short inteoduction (2012), page 19, bottom half:

              The earliest humans lived within small bands of nomadic foragers, know as hunter-gatherers. Migrations of these groups were generally patterned by changing seasons and enviromental conditions that affected the availability of food and other resources. Given their nomadic way of life, one might assume these early peoples lacked notiins of borders, territoriality, or land ownership. Yet research on contemporary hunter-gathere groups strongly suggests that these prehistoric humans possessed surprisingly elaborate tertitorial arrangements.

              The passage isn’t very long and anybody can sail the high seas to read for themselves.
              There are exceptions, as with anything in life, but it seems that borders did in fact exist since the dawn of humans.

      • LavaPlanet@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        131·
        2 天前

        That’s a bit extremist. Jump straight to the hoards of invaders waiting to shit in your bed (let’s not talk about how suspiciously specific that is). That’s the type of fear mongering being evoked by certain cults purporting propaganda, currently.

        Why not instead imagine your boarders are just bigger, and there’s just more people in your community, to work as a community together, pooling resources and looking after each other.

        People are all just people, one pool of people on the other side of boarders, aren’t magically malicious, just because they’re on the other side. People aren’t born evil and out to get you (as long as you don’t count the 1%).

        If people are desperate for a bed to shit in (seriously, wtf are you up to in your spare time…wait, actually, don’t tell me) why not give them one. Maybe hoarding resources was never a good idea, and if we all have enough beds to shit in, we can get on to doing the good work, parties.

        • killingspark@feddit.orgEnglish
          1·
          1 天前

          we can get on to doing the good work, parties.

          Will there be a bed at the party? I won’t come if there isn’t a bed. I might need to take a shit later.

            • killingspark@feddit.orgEnglish
              1·
              22 小时前

              That’s for wafflestomping the shit you bring from the bedroom. What do you think the shower is for?!

      • Funkt4st1c@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        1 天前

        If you need to sleep in my house, be a polite guest and you are welcome. Otherwise i will remove you. That is all.